Sol (00:00)
On today's episode, I'm welcoming Tamara Rowles, the creator and host of the innovative divorce support app DivorceWave. She's a passionate attorney, mediator and executive divorce consultant, as well as of Truce Resolutions, a mediation and family conflict consulting practice.

In this episode, we dive into the emotional and even spiritual aspects of divorce, how to navigate the pain, reclaim your identity, and build a new filled with intention.

ever felt stuck in resentment or wondered how to best co-parent with grace and civility, this episode is for you. dive in.

Sol (00:38)
Hi Tamara, welcome. I'm really happy to have you on the podcast today.

Tamara Rowles (00:42)
Thank you, it's great to be here.

Sol (00:43)
So Tamara, you've had a very diverse career. You've been an attorney, you do executive divorce consulting, you're a has led you to support people that are going through

Tamara Rowles (00:55)
I've been a litigator for about 20 years and then 10 years ago I opened a boutique mediation practice, but that was also in litigation. Through that process there were some family law cases that came by and I realized pretty quickly that as a litigator, it took me five years to resolve a case and it was just a bunch of money going back and forth. I never felt like it was a productive process. But in mediation I could resolve a case

over 80 % of the time, in a single day. It was a better process for everybody involved.

When I went through my own divorce, that's when I returned to it because my own divorce was a transformative experience for When I came out of it, I realized that this is what I wanna do. I started becoming more of a family law attorney.

But then I started to focus on the coaching and the consulting aspect because that was where I felt I could make the most difference. I really wanted to focus on helping people through the emotional aspects of divorce because that was the hardest part for me. And I think that was the part where I didn't really find a whole lot of support other than the traditional therapy context.

Sol (02:04)
I think a lot of people, especially if they haven't gone through divorce or they're looking from outside on a divorce, they're thinking that divorce is this ending or a failure in some way. But I've heard you frame it as an opportunity for transformation. Can you tell us more about your perspective?

Tamara Rowles (02:18)
Yes.

I think divorce, it's one of those key transitions in life. Nobody wants to go through it. Nobody wants to be in their divorce era. But when you're there, it is an opportunity to really look at your life, to look at how far you've come, how many pieces along the way that you've lost. And for me specifically,

I realized that I could pick up those pieces, put myself back together, and use the divorce as an opportunity to really smash the chessboard and put my life back together in an intentional way, piece by piece. Because I didn't realize how lost I felt until I had that space. Because you're already feeling low, divorce is one of the hardest things that you can go through.

I think it's a perfect opportunity while you're low to say, okay, how did I get here? Where do I wanna go? And how can I put my life back together in a way that feels more authentic and more intentional to me? And so that's what I did. I realized that there were a lot of people that were also in this phase of life. It's a complete re-imagining

of your life. As hard as it is, it is the perfect opportunity to rebuild your life in a way that feels right and true and authentic.

Sol (03:33)
What you're describing here is really like the hero's journey. Going through divorce, overcoming adversity and coming out stronger. How do you see that playing out in divorce?

Tamara Rowles (03:42)
it is the quintessential hero's journey. begins with accepting a challenge and divorce is that challenge. It requires you to accept that what was working for you in the past is no longer working for you.

And then of course you have the quest, and the quest to me would be the opportunity to get through your divorce with grace, with grit, with civility, because you can get through it with anger or you can get through it with respect. Along the way in the hero's journeys, you're gonna meet a mentor.

And a lot of times for people going through a divorce that's either a therapist or a mediator or a coach like me. And then finally you get this transformation, but you have to walk through the fire to get there. If you can do the work, then you do get that beautiful reward on the other side, which is that transformation that most of us want and need.

Sol (04:31)
I love that so much. And I love what you talked about around doing it with grace and civility. Because we can really get caught up in the conflict and the anger and the resentment. What are some mindset shifts that you would suggest that co-parents consider when they're going through this process so that they can handle it with grace and civility?

Tamara Rowles (04:51)
I think the mindset piece really is the most important. And it starts from the very beginning. If you can get started early, what I always recommend is, before you hire an attorney, before you go in guns blazing,

that you really take a chance to pause. I recommend to my clients that they take a pause and that they decide from the very beginning how they want to show up and how they want to divorce. Because if you can decide that from the very beginning, then that becomes your compass throughout the process.

Nobody's gonna do it perfectly, we're all gonna be triggered. We all don't respond in the right way every time. But if you can set that tone from the very beginning,

that's what keeps you on track. So you can have a respectful divorce.

Sol (05:35)
I love that idea of setting an intention for the journey before you embark on it so that you can remind yourself as things get difficult this is what you want, you want

Tamara Rowles (05:45)
Yeah, and it's a process and it's not always gonna go perfectly. It can be very messy, but if you have your compass and you know where you wanna go and you know what your goals are, what your values are, and especially if there's kids involved, if you always keep them in the forefront of your mind, as we like to say, we keep kids in the center of the divorce and not in the middle. So as long as you have that compass,

then that's what guides you through. When kids are involved, it becomes especially important because of course there's gonna be anger, of course there's gonna be resentment and bitterness. But if you can keep your side of the street clean, then you have that much better shot of getting to the end of this process without shame, without guilt. You know that you've tried your best. You know you've tried as hard as you could

to keep those pieces of your family together to preserve that legacy for them.

Sol (06:40)
I really like that term, keeping your side of the street clean. And to do that, you really need to do the work. What does that look like in the context of divorce, keeping your side of the street clean and doing the work?

Tamara Rowles (06:52)
From my perspective, doing the work is a few things. It starts with a big challenge: accepting our part in the breakdown of the marriage. Because it takes two people to get married, it takes two people to build that relationship, and it takes two people to, for lack of a better word, destroy it. It's a relationship that broke down, and it takes two.

And of course, there's gonna be fault and there's gonna be blame. There's enough blame to go around. But if you can really look inward and see where did I go wrong? What signs did I miss? How did I let my voice be silenced? How did I make myself smaller? How did I not stand up for myself? How did I accept this treatment? What treatment did I give back in return? How did I trigger my partner? Because we all have our own stuff.

If you're in this phase of life, it's likely that both of you were triggering each other in various ways. And that's what led to the breakdown. So if you can go back and say, "OK, I accept my part," then that is the starting point. That is where the transformation begins. Then you can really say, "I don't want to do that again. I definitely don't want to do that again. So how do I change me?"

Everybody deserves a loving, supportive relationship. So the next time around, you don't repeat those mistakes, you don't repeat those patterns, and you really have a better chance of that beautiful next chapter that we all wish for.

Sol (08:16)
Yeah, that's a really great point. I'm wondering about a client who comes to you stuck in those feelings of anger, resentment, how would you coach them through that process of orienting towards healing and self-growth?

Tamara Rowles (08:29)
I think a lot of it is accountability. Coaching especially is a little bit different than therapy. A lot of times therapy looks back, but coaching, you try to keep it moving forward. So when clients are stuck in those patterns, it really is about something as simple as self-discipline. It's giving those clients the tools to notice when their mind walks away, or I should say runs away from them...

Some Buddhists refer to it as monkey mind when you get those swirling thoughts. A lot of times those swirling thoughts are in our head and we don't even notice them. Practicing noticing those thoughts and then it's as simple as a snap of the fingers and say, "no, this is not what I want. These are not the thoughts that are gonna get me to this next goal" and cutting them off at the pass and then redirecting your own mind to think another more productive thought.

I call it thought redirection. It's very simple, but it's not easy. Over time, you practice. It's three steps. You notice, you cut it off, you redirect. It's hard because our brains are on overdrive constantly. The noticing part becomes the trickiest part. You might only be able to do it once a day,

but then over time, it'll be twice a day. It's these small shifts that we start to notice, you'll cut off those thoughts quicker, and then you'll be able to redirect those thoughts a lot faster.

It's that thought discipline that really starts to shift and move the needle over time.

Sol (09:55)
I'm really appreciating your incorporation of Buddhism into your work. the divorce, oftentimes there's a spiritual awakening or a big shift in your life. Tell us more about what you've seen and why that is.

Tamara Rowles (10:09)
I think it's the case that when you're feeling so low, you'll look for anything that can help pull you out of that darkness. And that's a great time to start reading and to start learning. And whatever resonates with you, that's the direction you go in.

For me, I looked at all kinds of ancient and modern wisdom. I looked at the I Ching, Buddhism, Kabbalah. I didn't want to deal with all the swirling thoughts in my own head. So I filled my head with better things. And divorce is a perfect time to do that.

You might wanna go read something like The Courage to Be Disliked, which is a really approachable book on Adlerian theory about how to cut off these thoughts, about how to shift in very small, very simple ways. If something like Buddhism resonates with you, go read about the Four Poisons. Or if something like your own religion resonates with you,

dive deep into your religion again because those are going to be the things that help remove some of the negative thoughts that have no place to go in your head.

Sol (11:07)
Yeah, and divorce can often leave people questioning their identity. Especially after a long marriage, you lose track of even who you are as an independent person. How do you help your clients rediscover who they are in this process?

Tamara Rowles (11:21)
I think it's just a lot of encouragement. It's just a lot of...

almost giving them permission

to focus on them again. Because a lot of my clients-- and I coach both men and women-- a lot of my clients have been working so hard to put their marriage first, to put their children first, to put their relationship first, that they've forgotten who they are. And they almost need permission to focus on themselves again. So as their co-pilot in this experience, I give them that permission to say, hey, what's interesting you this week? What self-care have you done

this week? And by self-care, I don't mean necessarily going to the spa. It could be as simple as taking a walk or a bath. Because if you're a co-parent, now for the first time in maybe years, you actually might have time to yourself. That's what joint custody is. For me, I got divorced during COVID, so I had a lot of time to myself. And in those moments, I used that time to rediscover who I was. And I looked around the house and I was like, there's nobody that needs me right now.

I don't have anybody that's leaning on me for anything. So it's actually a perfect time to say, okay, who am I again? What do I wanna do?

It's about bringing yourself back to the basics, enjoying your food again, giving yourself a beat, reading for a few minutes, getting a walk outside. Those are the things that really started to rebuild that relationship that I had with myself that I had cut off for so many years.

So it's the small things that I think make the biggest shifts over time.

Sol (12:51)
The message I'm hearing in that is that it's so important to learn how to be with yourself again, to not jump immediately to the next relationship, to prevent yourself from feeling that loneliness, but to actually feel it all the way through.

Tamara Rowles (13:04)
Yeah, and that's not easy. Actually feeling the feelings is not easy, especially if you've been running from those feelings for so many years, like most of us have when we get to this process. But actually feeling the feelings, because that is what will reconnect you to yourself. And that is where the transformation happens. It's when you allow yourself to feel the pain and the joy. We don't get one part of life without the other. But doing it

is what opens you up to more feelings, more joy, more intensity. It's the highs and the lows. We have to take the good with the bad.

Sol (13:38)
I love that.

So Tamara, I'm wondering about co-parents that find themselves post-divorce, maybe in a situation where they are not really experiencing co-parenting, but maybe even counter-parenting, where there's a lot of blame coming from the other side and it's difficult for them to stay focused on the kids, stay focused on the next chapter.

What advice do you have for someone dealing with that high conflict situation?

Tamara Rowles (14:04)
Yeah, it is so rough. It's awful because you know that you're trying to do right by your kid and yet you can't get past the conflict. I think it's really difficult. That's why I love apps like yours where they really teach people how to reframe conversations so they're not escalating the conflict in their communications. But I think again, because we know that we can't change the conduct of your ex-spouse, you're not gonna change them.

The reason that you got divorced is because you couldn't change them and so you're certainly not gonna change them now. Reminding yourself again and again that, okay, I can't change them, so what can I do? How do I regain my own power? And to do that again, it's about keeping your side of the street clean. So making sure that you are not escalating the conflict, making sure that you've got

rock solid boundaries because if you, for example, set a boundary that says, okay, I'm not gonna read your text after 9 p.m., I'll get to it in the next morning, and then you're the one that sends a text after 9 p.m., well, that just enables that person to violate those boundaries again and again. So making sure that you set up very good rules of engagement

for yourself and that you are honoring those rules because once you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. It's really about trying to keep yourself in check as much as possible. I know it's difficult when you might be right, you might be justified. All of that anger is justified, but just remembering that

the goal there is to reduce conflict. You're not gonna get them to accept your side of the narrative, your version of the narrative. They never will. And so just releasing that need to get that acceptance and to get that validation from the other side, it's so hard to do. But it's really important to just remind yourself again and again, I don't need their validation. I don't need them to know that I'm right.

The only thing that matters here is the kids. getting their schedule done and their work complete and knowing that this is not gonna overpower and dominate their childhood experience. They deserve to have their own experience. They deserve to have their own relationship with their other parent, even if you don't like that parent anymore. They deserve to have that own experience. And so backing off a little bit,

and releasing just a little bit of that control, and I'm type A, I'm a control freak myself, but releasing just a little bit of that control, that's when you can let it blossom.

Sol (16:32)
As a co-parent myself, I know how difficult communication can be. That's why I created Best Interest, the co-parenting app that uses advanced AI technology to automatically filter out all negativity, promoting positive communication and helping you create a healthier environment for your family. Try it now and get 10 % off with code Beyond10. Link in the show notes.

Sol AI (16:54)
And now, back to the show.

Tamara Rowles (16:56)
me, I was not in a high conflict situation, so it was a little bit easier for me, but when the dust settled on the divorce, we were very cold to each other. It was just business partners, this isn't the case for everybody,

but over time, we built a mutual trust and respect again. Not trust in our marital relationship, but trust as co-parents. Because I know that there are no two people on this planet that are gonna love those children more than the two of us. And so when I learned to respect his role and his relationship with them and not point out all of the ways that I could do things better, which is what I used to do.

When I learned to lay off that just a little bit, then things started to shift. And he started to warm up to me. I started to warm up to him. And now we are in a very good collaborative co-parenting relationship where we started out as parallel parents. So trusting the process, having a little faith, recognizing that you're not going to always get it right, and neither will they. And then also what I recommend to my clients is give to get.

Because sometimes you're gonna need some flexibility too. Sometimes you're gonna need a pass when you forget an appointment and you're charged for that therapy appointment. So if you can just relax and let things pass and let things slide a little bit, then you get that respect and you get that honored in return. So giving to get allows both parents to be a little bit more flexible, to be a little bit more fluid, and it works out better for the kids.

Sol (18:26)
I love that. I love giving to get. That's such a helpful reminder that there are going to be times in the co-parenting relationship where you really need that extra day and having a relationship where at some point you've given when it'll allow you to get later. I also love what you said about allowing the children to have their own relationship with your co-parent, their father, their mother.

To allow them to form their own opinions and to create their own relationship. There's gonna be lessons for them in that, in their relationship with you too. I think that's really beautiful to not try to control that and just allow it to unfold.

Tamara Rowles (19:03)
I think it's difficult because when you have young children, you are involved in every day, in every moment of their lives.

But as they get older, your involvement starts to wane a little bit, and they start to make their own relationships. And it was interesting to me that when they went off to school, suddenly they had this own world that I wasn't a part of, and I didn't see. They would come and tell me about it, but there would be hours of the day that I wasn't involved. That was an awakening for me. I didn't realize that that was going to be coming so quickly. It's kind of similar with co-parenting. They are going to have their own lives. That's what children do. They grow up, and they have their own lives,

form their own relationships and their own opinions. So allowing that to happen with their other parent as well, you can't really stop it. So you might as well just support their relationship and support their growth and their own ability to navigate this path for themselves.

Sol (19:55)
You also mentioned in your own process of divorce that your co-parenting started off as parallel parents, more business-like. And then you evolved into a more collaborative co-parenting relationship. That's absolutely something that I advocate for my own clients to start with. Just make sure that the exchanges are easy. Make sure the boundaries are kept. The respect builds from there.

Tamara Rowles (20:07)
you

Sol (20:17)
You can start from that first gear and shift up. What else can you tell us about parallel parenting as a solution for situations, especially right after when the divorce is still fresh?

Tamara Rowles (20:28)
Yeah, I think when the dust is settling, sometimes that's all you can do. You just don't have it in you anymore to be the person that has all of the balls in the air. So parallel parenting is a way to let a few of those balls drop and to trust the process. If you were the one that had all of the schedules, had all of the homework, all of the calendars and the appointments and you kept all of that in your head because you were afraid

that you were the only one that could do it? Well, you might be pleasantly surprised that if you pull back a little bit, your other parent can step up and they can step into that role.

And it really is almost a surrendering that needs to happen. And your co-parent, I mean, this might not be the case with narcissists. Of course, there are exceptions to this. Of course. This can't happen with everybody. But once in a while, I will even throw it out there like, hey, you're really on the ball. That's really great. And he'll respond, thanks. Almost as if he's giving himself a pat on the

because he deserved it. As things start to settle and as things start to normalize again, you can almost just support each other in a respectful way. And with my ex, we are friendly, but we're not friends. I don't know if that's ever gonna be an expectation that can happen.

But in front of the children, we are friendly, we are congenial, we collaborate. The kids see us talking about their schedules. They see us interacting. And sometimes we need to have a private conversation, and they're respectful about it. So it starts to develop, and you start to find your rhythm again. If you can just pull back and not be as controlling, then you let that rhythm unfold. And then you can figure out, OK.

He actually has a strength here. I can lean on that a little bit. He has more time on these days. I have less time on these days. That wasn't in our parenting plan, but now that we have this respectful fluid process, maybe we can reimagine what this looks like. And it starts to become normal. It starts to become a system. And the two of you get to be on the same page again in the raising of the children that the two of you love the most.

It does develop, for a lot of us over time. For me, it took about a year for things to start moving in that direction. Now I know I can call him if I need something, I've screwed up. I can call him and say, "you know what? I didn't do this right. Can you help me here?" And I'm not met with any kind of resentment. I'm not met with any kind of shaming, any kind of finger pointing. It's just like, sure, I've got it. And that's really nice.

Sol (23:01)
That's great. Now you are the founder of a new app called Divorce Wave and I'd love to talk to you more about what makes it unique and how does it support people that are going through this transition.

Tamara Rowles (23:14)
Thank you. Yeah, Divorce Wave was designed to be your co-pilot during every phase of the divorce process, from the exploration phase to the co-parenting and beyond. The Waves are guided audio mindfulness-based experiences. They're paired with beautiful music, and each one is very specific

to something that you through during a divorce. So it's not a meditation app. It's not like Calm or Headspace or any of those apps because it's very situational, very specific to divorce. I remember you talking with Dr. Ramani in one of your earlier episodes about how, it's difficult to feel closure when you're going through a divorce and sometimes letting go is difficult.

So for example, in the app, I have a couple of waves that might help somebody process those emotions in private at their own pace. For example, I have a wave in there, it's 15 minutes or less, and it's called How Do I Emotionally Detach From My Spouse? And that is not about the love, it's about getting your spouse out of your head. Because even if we're not in love with that person anymore, a lot of times with divorce,

they're still occupying a lot of our thoughts, whether we want them to or not. So this is something that a subscriber can listen to, to walk them through the process of slowly detaching. I have another one there called Grieving the Loss of My Marriage. So if you're struggling with the heartbreak and the pain, it really is designed to kind of walk you through those emotions.

So I designed Divorce Wave to be your partner in that process, in that deep inner work. There's guided journaling sessions.

There's waves that you can do when you're exercising to keep you motivated. So it was designed to kind of walk you through very specific phases that may come up for you and emotions that may come up for you in the divorce process.

Sol (25:09)
I was trying out the app before our interview today and I came across a wave that is very near and dear to my heart talking about communication. What do you do when your ex sends you a communication that sets you off? Something like that. And I thought it was really helpful. Curious if you could tell us more about communication between co-parents and what can go wrong and how

Tamara Rowles (25:18)
Mm.

Sol (25:32)
how Divorce Wave can help them get through it.

Tamara Rowles (25:35)
Yeah, as you know, because this is one of your specialties, it can go awry really quickly. It can escalate really quickly. And so you get that nasty gram from your ex. And I see Divorce Wave as kind of a cool one-two punch with the Best Interest app. So say, for example, you get that nasty gram from your ex. If they're using the Best Interest app, that text will be screened out, and they'll see just the information.

But then later they might wanna see the full text, right? I can envision something like where before they look at the real text, the ones that might have all of these nasty things, they can go into the Divorce Wave app and pause and listen to a five minute wave that I have in there called I Just Received An Angry Text From My Ex. Before they read it, they can get into the right mindset, they can breathe through it, they can be prepared, or if they forget,

they can still do it afterwards and it'll still reset them. I have another one called I'm Triggered and I Need to Calm Down. So if they read a nasty text and they are triggered and those thoughts are swirling, they can go into the DivorceWave app, pull up a five to seven minute wave, put on their earbuds and just calm down. And it really helps them refocus so they can respond as their calmer, wiser, most empowered self.

So it really is designed to be in the moment when you need that support.

Sol (26:56)
I love that vision, because when we get messages from our ex, even if they seem benign, they might trigger us in certain ways that, we're not even fully aware. And when we're triggered, we respond negatively, we get defensive, we go into loops, and then we get back into the same old patterns with our ex that we used to when we were married to them. And that's not helpful for anyone. But I love this idea of employing the Best Interest app to help

filter, get past that emotionality, and then later, before you look at that original text, you can go in, calm yourself down, get into a better headspace, so that then you're ready to really process when that emotionally-laden charged email or text comes through to read it and be able to process it.

Tamara Rowles (27:43)
Yeah, and it's that pause, it's that allowance that you can steal yourself and prepare, it makes all the difference. It really does, because when you take that pause, then suddenly you are back in the driver's seat. You're not in a reactive state of mind. And it's when we react that we...

we fire off those nasty emails or we send an email to our divorce lawyer saying, "that's it, I'm done, I need this, this, and this, and this." It's those reactions that cause the most conflict and a lot of times it's very expensive. When you have that reaction, if all of a sudden you've got two lawyers involved and two therapists involved and your kids are dysregulated, it's a very expensive mistake for everybody.

So if you can give yourself that beat, take a pause, and if you know you're triggered, you have this resource in your pocket. You pull out your phone and you're like, okay, I've got this. And when you're done with that wave, you can either look at the text then and feel calm and almost gamify it. You can almost make a game out of it and say,

What am I gonna be hit with today? And then when you react in a way, it's so empowering. It's almost like racking up those extra life. Cha-ching, cha-ching. Every time you respond in a way that

neutralizes the conflict instead of feeling it, you get an extra life because it's that much less stress on your body, on your nervous system, and you almost see it as this person doesn't know how to be an adult, but I do. I can take control, I can take charge. So it really just takes one to change the dynamic for the better.

Sol (29:15)
It's so empowering, isn't it, to learn how to step above it. And then it also positively impacts the whole family system. When you start showing up in a different way, the dynamic can't stay the same way it was before.

Tamara Rowles (29:28)
Yeah, it's true.

And everybody feels it. Everybody feels that release of the tension, especially the kids, because they are so aware. They track our every move. They hang on our every word, whether we know it or not, whether we see them watching us or not. They can feel that tension. And it allows them to relax into the situation. It allows them to be themselves again, to be loyal to both their parents again. That was a comment that I remember from your episode with Dr.

Ramani, she talked about this loyalty that kids have with their parents. It's so important. They need to be able to see their parents as superheroes, especially when they're young. And so when you can rack up those extra lives, then you are their superhero again, and you allow their other parent to also calm down

and refocus. And by setting that example, if that parent continues to give you those nasty grams and all you're doing is responding with kindness, we know we've been around the playground. The best way to get rid of a bully is not to give them the satisfaction. If they keep trying to do it, it just looks silly. And you come off strong, cool as a cucumber, and empowered. So over time, it starts to shift.

Sol (30:41)
Well, and speaking of the kids too, they're watching our every move. They're seeing how we interact. The prayer is that they won't repeat those same patterns in their life. And regardless, everyone meets a bully or two or three or a dozen in their lives. So they will watch and listen and be taking notes in their head.

Tamara Rowles (30:59)
Yeah, I mean, what do want your kids to see? You want your kids to see you be able to go through the really hard things and come out stronger. That's what we want for ourselves. That's what we want for them. We want them to know that, yeah, it's okay. There are transitions. You're gonna go through the really hard things, but it's how we handle them that matters. It's not the breakdown of their family. It's not the breakdown of...

the relationship or the marriage that matters. It's how we pick our pieces up, put them back together, and still remain a family for them. And I know sometimes that's a controversial thing, whether we're still a family or not still a family. And maybe we're not. I call it the family 2.0, because this is our 2.0 version of our family. And it may look different. It's definitely not the same. But as of now,

my children have four parental figures that love them. And to me, that's a win. That's a win because they have four people that are now in their corner no matter what.

Sol (31:58)
Yeah, total win. I love this. Where can listeners find out about Divorce Wave and connect with you about your offerings?

Tamara Rowles (32:05)
Sure, so DivorceWave.com is where they can go. And for your listeners, Sol we've created a special code that will allow them to download the app for 12 full months. So they get a full year of DivorceWave for $44.99. And that code is gonna be, I'm sure you'll put it in the show notes, but I think it's gonna be BEYONDCONFLICT all one word, all caps. So when they go to DivorceWave.com,

they can download the app from there and just sign up for the 12 month version with your code. And it's a really good price because the app launched recently. I want to build a community and I want to give people the tools that they need for a full year because that's about how long it's going to take. And so if they can download it from the beginning of this process, whether they're exploring or now in the middle of divorce, it's going to be there for them throughout.

Sol (32:55)
Great, thank you so much. Thanks for being on the show.

Tamara Rowles (32:56)
Thank you, Sol.

Sol (32:59)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (33:17)
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