Sol (00:01)
Welcome back to Co-Parenting Beyond Conflict. I'm your host, Sol. Today, I'm joined by Vicky Townsend, a passionate advocate who's been changing the way families experience divorce for over 20 years. We talk about why divorce is so emotionally and financially challenging, the hidden toll it takes on children, and how understanding your ACE score could completely shift the way you co-parent. Plus, we dive into the unique challenges that first responders face when it comes to marriage and divorce.

Let's dive in.

Sol (00:29)
Good morning, Vicky. Thanks for being on the podcast today. Welcome.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (00:32)
Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here today. You cover some amazing topics that are so important to people everywhere. So I'm grateful to be included.

Sol (00:41)
Thanks, Vicky. I'm really excited about our conversation. our pre-interview, we talked about ACEs, medical personnel and first responders, and I'd really love to get some insights into your background. did you get into this line of work supporting people in this way?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (00:55)
I've been in the divorce industry now for about two decades. I started this journey because I spent six figures getting through the divorce process. And I'm a pretty smart girl.

in my heart that it should not cost somebody's entire life savings to end a marriage that isn't working. And I knew more importantly that even though I was aware of it, even in the background, somehow I was being manipulated by a system that was not working in my own best interest.

If I knew then what I know now, I'd be about $95,000 richer. Let's just start there. also kind of felt early on that The system was so labyrinthine by design, that there had to be a better way to do I started to study what

divorce does not only just to individuals, but really and truly to our country, to our economy and how stupid this whole process is that we have considered just a part of our culture now. "So and so's lost the house in the divorce. They're homeless now." I'm talking about literally being homeless. They literally have lost everything that they have.

That's just become a, "gosh, isn't that a shame." No, we should be outraged by process of ending relationships that steals our joy, steals our mental sanity, but also just steals our financial wellbeing and our ability to move forward with some resources in our pocket or in our bank account. I started divorce coaching before it was

a thing. Now it's a big thing, But I was doing it 20 years ago. And then I started another company with a partner called the National Association of Divorce Professionals because I realized that the professionals are really a part of this whole process. And ultimately, what I learned was that there are two very expensive parts of someone's divorce. The first one is being uneducated.

And the second one is being

The opportunity for people to make a lot of money on being unprepared, unorganized, and uneducated about the process was just massive. I also learned, as we talk about the impact of divorce on the economy and on ourselves, is that divorce causes the average person to lose 40 % of their productivity for three to five years.

There was a study done by Family Innovations. it's over $400 billion a year in lost productivity due to divorce.

Sol (03:30)
I believe that.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (03:32)
A billion dollars a day and lost productivity due to the system that we have just come to say, "it's just the way we do it." You don't have to do it that way. You don't have to spend your life savings ending a marriage that's not working. There's a lot of money to be made in conflict and chaos. So if you can learn to cool that down and let cooler heads prevail,

you can walk away with some of your resources so that at least you can build a life for yourself and your future.

Sol (03:59)
I'm thinking about how much of a fire hose it is to start entering into the process of divorce. Not only are you feeling emotionally challenged by this relationship ending, and that's bringing up a whole lot of stuff, but then,

you're talking with attorneys that are getting you scared and you're asking around and learning about other the horror stories and it's scary and it's hard to know where to look for information.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (04:25)
And there's ACEs.

There's a lot of money to be made in conflict and chaos, right? I've actually seen them stir up conflict when there is none. So be careful, be mindful about what they're doing and the manipulation that can be done to you without sometimes you even recognizing it.

It's a crappy system. It's become a part of our culture. And I think we can do better. I know we can do better, because I help people do it. I get them through this they have some money left in their bank account. They can communicate with their ex. They don't have to run when they're in the produce department of Publix.

They can actually say hello. When they can still have relationship that is not filled with anger and bitterness and hatred, that's a win for me.

Sol (05:13)
That's so refreshing to hear that. I am feeling inspired by the notion of a different way of doing things that maybe isn't so litigious. So if I was coming to you contemplating a divorce, how would you advise starting that process?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (05:29)
First of I want you to know that you are empowered by learning what's out there. So that's why we have a course. It was written by a wonderful woman, Paulette Rigo and we use it in our program. It is an education, a 101 to help you understand, first of all, it starts with, "should I stay or should I go?"

and helps you make that decision. But if you're past that, you can skip to learning There's five ways to divorce in this country. Most people know about one, which is You better lawyer up, right? You gotta get a shark, you gotta get a bulldog, you gotta get a barracuda, tiger something, some sort of animal that eats another person, right? And yeah, don't do that. Those people are really expensive and they survive on this, right? This is the way they make their living.

Sol (06:10)
Don't do that.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (06:19)
They're not about to help you do this. I know some that do. So I am talking about a particular high percentage that baby needs a new pair of shoes, kids just got into Harvard... It comes down to not knowing, you not understanding the system.

We teach you that there's five different ways. My favorite way is either DIYing it or mediating it. Those are my two favorites, particularly if you've got low assets and maybe your children are grown or you don't have children or that you're in agreement with how you guys want to raise your children and understand how important having your other partner is in the lives of your children. Mediation is

beautiful. If you need representation, if your divorce is a little bit more complicated, if you've got a couple of businesses, maybe you have some rental properties, that kind of thing, the collaborative process is a wonderful process, which is you're both represented with an attorney. You have a neutral financial person that's in the room with you and a neutral mental health person to keep the

the temperature in the room down so that you can make informed decisions not on emotion but on actual facts. I think that that's a wonderful solution. But my solution of last resort is always litigation because that's when your money just goes out the window and you spend it. You know, I spent six figures and I want you all to understand,

there was nothing. I just wanted the pain to stop and I'll pay. How much do I have? Another 5,000? Another 5,000? 15,000? Here you go. And there are just so many better ways. Helping people take a look at their whole situation and go, there are other ways to get

to this solution. $104,000 got me exactly where I would have been if I had spent $5,000 in mediation, because the laws are the laws. Even though you think he's a jerk or she's a bitch or all of those things, it still doesn't change.

It's not going to be, exactly where you wanted it to be, but it's going to be close to 50-50. What you guys developed when you were married while during the course of your marriage. Instead of fighting and instead of just burning the house down with the other person in it, if you can just solve those

solutions amicably and move on and have some peace in your life because all it does is destroy you.

Sol (08:45)
when you're a co-parent, when you have kids, these experiences can impact them for the rest of their lives.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (08:51)
Well, yeah, that's

what we started talking about, ACEs scores, right? Those are tremendous. That's a big problem that we're having here.

Sol (08:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk about those adverse childhood experiences. Can you tell us more about what an ACE score is and how it affects co-parents and those going through divorce?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (09:08)
Yeah,

I'm not a mental health counselor, but because I've been in the divorce industry for so long... there are free tests online. You can take them. There are 10 questions. They are deep. They are dark. And they are scary. It is about

experiences that you had as a child that were traumatic. Everything from sexual abuse to not feeling safe in your home to fearing for when you were going to be child one out of 10

ACE scores. It's one-tenth. So it is significant. I'm on both sides of this because we not only give an ACE score to your child that child is going to experience but the higher your ACE scores, the higher your risk for divorce. So we're on

both sides of that. One of the things that I do when we're doing mediation is I make the parents take the ACE score and I let them understand, if giving a child one score, one tenth of the score for divorce is the same as being sexually molested in terms of trauma.

And I say to them, this will be the last ACE score that we're giving your child. This is the last one. I think that if you look at what having high ACE scores does is none of it's good. The higher your ACE score, the higher risk for homelessness, physical illness, mental

incarceration, addiction, divorce. The list is long and none of it's good. Understanding all of those things, we need to take better care of our children

and do the best that we can for them and limit their ACE scores.

Sol (10:53)
Isn't it about providing the insight that the experiences we had as children affect the rest of our lives, these traumas carry through and cause health issues, relational issues...

then we can take steps to address, take better care of ourselves, maybe seek therapy.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (11:15)
goal for all of them is to Understand the importance of making good quality, careful decisions about what happens to your child through the process of divorce. The more you guys fight, particularly in front of your children, it really ticks up that ACE score.

If you can be committed to providing your child with as trauma-free a childhood experience as possible, the higher their risk for success, the higher their risk for happiness, the higher their risk for a happy, joyful marriage and committed marriage. Their health is better. their mental health is better.

Their risk for homelessness goes away, their risk for incarceration is drastically reduced. All of those things come into play here. risk behaviors, that's risk factor for high ACE scores. As parents, we have an obligation to put our children first before the anger and

the fights because of what he did or what she did. Put the children ahead of that and Let the children be children and let them feel safe in your home, safe with their parents and let them feel completely loved and they won't have those high ACE scores.

Sol (12:32)
Yeah, and the insight that I'm getting by listening to you talk is that, if you're earlier on in this process of getting divorced, it's crucial for you to understand the traumas that you faced that might be leading to this moment and that might lead you in a direction of increased conflict in your divorce that might cost you money. But if you take a pause,

and say, what are the things that are governing my behavior? And how can I show up in a better way? How can I heal so that I can be more collaborative rather than get sucked into a system that just wants me to fight until every last cent is spent?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (13:07)
Right, right. It's hard to read the label when you're inside the jar. It's hard to make good wise choices when you're in the middle of a tornado. That's why people like you and like me are important to this process. helping them read that label and to see the true nature of what's happening.

Sol (13:26)
Yeah, there's a different way to go about things that could result in better outcomes.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (13:31)
We can't look away from the fact that these are human beings and we are all human beings going through human experiences. That in itself is a challenge, but if we can step back and have somebody that can show us a perspective of what we see as

this explosion, that could be a better outcome for their children and for the family and for their future. Who wants to live in all of this muck and mire of anger and hate and vitriol? It's not good for us. It's not good for our mental health. It's not good for our physical health. Putting your kid in the middle of that is pretty horrific.

Sol (14:08)
Yeah, the ACEs score, I took it prior to this interview and it was very eye opening and it was actually surprisingly short. It only took me a few minutes. A little hard to read and imagine all the possibilities. And it was insightful for me. I would definitely encourage our listeners to take it and think about how it's impacting them.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (14:16)
Yes.

I work with first responders and by nature, they have very high ACE scores. It's what gives them the ability to handle trauma when we can't. It's the badge that they wear, but it's also the weakness that they have

for moving forward. So getting support and help- EMDR has been working great for some of the guys that I work with, to get over childhood experiences and childhood trauma. They're doing some amazing work with that. I've seen it firsthand. I have not experienced it myself, but I have experienced it through my clients that

I have that are first responders that are working on that. So much so that I have a girlfriend that went through a very traumatic childhood and she did it and she's in the process of, clearing a lot of her own childhood trauma, and she's like a different person. would encourage anybody if you've gone through those things yourself, to consider those types of therapies

that are out there for that.

Sol (15:35)
Yeah, for

sure. You mentioned about first responders and I'd like to know more about some of the unique challenges that they're facing with marriage, divorce, co-parenting, how does it impact them?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (15:45)
Yeah,

beyond their ACE scores, particularly firefighters and military, have four very high risk factors that are literally baked into their job description. And I think that, one of the things that was eye opening for me as a taxpayer was starting to learn about some of the stuff that they just see every day as a part of their daily

life. The statistics are that you and I, and any of your listeners that are not first responders, we will have between three to five traumatic events in our lifetime. They have that in a 24-hour shift.

My business is we help and support employees going through the divorce process so that they can come back to work and be whole productive employees and have a better result.

Not only are they experiencing divorce at much higher rates, but sending them into the family court system would be like sending me into the LA fires from a couple of

months ago, and asking me to fix those fires. You talk about using the fire hose analogy here. Imagine putting somebody like me in that process. It would not end well. You can walk into any of the fire stations in your community and you'll see guys that are your age

that are on their second, third, or even fourth marriages. They face four key risk factors as a result of their job. The first is high exposure to stress. The second is high exposure to trauma. The third is shift work. Believe it or not, shift work impacts your divorce rate. you who else is in there emergency room

trauma centers, urgent care centers. They all experience those rates as well. But the thing that firefighters and military have is that they have a bro culture. They have a frat house culture. It's called the Fraternal Order for police for a reason. It's a brotherhood. It's a bro culture. And there's nothing good that happens in a frat house culture like that for marriages.

It just doesn't. Imagine they have to do that two to three times a week. They're living like that. That's just a part of their job description. We as taxpayers, if we can have some empathy and understanding that by doing what they do, that they are sacrificing their mental health for us,

Sol (17:44)
Yeah, I can imagine.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (18:06)
and they just need our support. We have to start to understand that. The people that we need, when we need them, we need them big. We need them to be full on and in the best position that they can to help because they're heroes. They really are heroes.

I've created a company where not only do I help them if they're going through divorce, but I actually have a program to help them save their marriage if it's salvageable.

I help them with parenting so that they can parent their children more effectively. And I have mental health services available to them 24/7 for crisis. I've created an ecosystem of support that will provide these guys that sacrifice so much for us with the help and the support that they need just to get through the day.

Sol (18:51)
That's so great, Vicky. That makes me feel really warm and happy hearing that you're doing that work.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (18:54)
It is, right?

People that hear it, they go, that's wonderful. need everybody to sit there and go, these are the people we need. Remember, they run into buildings when you're running out. They're the guys that'll go in and get your puppy when you can't go back in there. That's what they do. We need to support them. They need our help. They need our help because they go through a lot for us.

Sol (19:17)
Yeah, and I hear, part of your role is supporting them, but also advocating for them, because I think a lot of us don't even realize what these men and women go through every day to protect our communities and hold the emergencies, the traumas that we ourselves don't have to hold because they exist.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (19:31)
Yeah.

Yeah,

Like I said, those fires out in LA, none of us probably that are listening, unless you're a first responder firefighter, none of us could have gone out there and done the job that they did. They're brilliant, brilliant. They need our help. They need our.

Sol (19:46)
Hmm.

I'm so glad that you're doing that work.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (19:48)
Thank you.

Sol (19:50)
As a co-parent myself, I know how difficult communication can be. That's why I created Best Interest, the co-parenting app that uses advanced AI technology to automatically filter out all negativity, promoting positive communication and helping you create a healthier environment for your family. Try it now and get 10 % off with code Beyond10. Link in the show notes.

Sol AI (20:13)
And now, back to the show.

Sol (20:15)
Going back to earlier in our conversation, we were talking about the divorce industry and the various alternatives. But there is this default mode of divorce that is going the litigation route. You each get your lawyers, you go to court, you spend up to a year or two, whatever. And I'm wondering,

How can we as divorce professionals advocate for change? Are there places and areas that are changing in this process? Are there ways that we can improve that? Or is it just better to advocate for avoiding it and going an alternative way?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (20:50)
I am not so sure that I think it was designed for efficiency. I think it was designed almost punitively, and I'll tell you why. There's still a lot of stigma behind it, and there is a lot of religion still baked into that. So as an example, I'm here in North Carolina.

Sol (20:56)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (21:09)
in California, right? I think you guys have a 60 day waiting period. In North Carolina, it's a year. A year waiting period. you know.

Sol (21:16)
So you file

and you have to wait one year before the process starts.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (21:18)
And you can't

live together either. Some families live together until they are divorced so that the assets are split and all of that stuff. It's a year here. It's lot of religious connotation to that, try and work it out. And I get that. But I also feel like if you know that your marriage is over,

then the best thing, and if it's a violent marriage or abusive marriage or an abandonment, I feel there are reasons in the Bible that you can get a divorce. I think that

there are ways that you should be able to get out of that. And here in North Carolina, they're pretty locked down on that year.

Sol (21:56)
It's almost like the creators of the system wanted to make it so painful that you wouldn't do it.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (22:01)
Yes, yes. That

was kind of where I was going They made it that punitive kind of situation. And we as women have rights now and there's no-fault divorce and women are empowered financially.

They're not staying in relationships that they had to stay in before because they were unable to financially afford to leave. It's not necessarily the case anymore. Everybody thinks that marriages don't last anymore because of all of that stuff. But what that stuff did for women, in my opinion, is it made it so that they don't have to stay in an abusive relationship.

That was what was happening. It wasn't that people were staying married longer because they loved each other and it was a different culture. No, they were staying because they didn't have any option.

Sol (22:52)
Hmm. Yeah. So returning to the question of is there anything that we can do to advocate for this system, what I'm hearing is maybe burning the system down and advocating for the alternatives, mediation and...

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (22:52)
Now they've got all those. Some people don't like that.

it

Well,

I agree with that. The problem with our current system is that, not only is there no financial incentive to get a divorce completed, there's actually a financial incentive to keep it going. And that is the problem, that they're financially incentivized

for conflict and chaos. They are financially incentive for you to not be prepared, right? Because the more you're not prepared, the more angry you get, the more upset you get, the more incapable of making decisions you get, the more money there is to be made in the process.

Sol (23:44)
Right. It's just channeling everyone's angst and anger at one another into money. One of the surprises that I experienced and I hear about from clients is just how little there is even awareness about mental health in the current system. You don't even really generally see that many therapists going to court or supporting

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (23:48)
Yes. Money, money, money, money.

Sol (24:10)
those that are going through divorce and that just surprises me because it's such an emotional time for people.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (24:15)
Our divorce coaches will actually go to court with you if you need that. Three to four percent of divorces go before a judge ever. If people had just even understood that, they could understand that there are other ways to do this. This is just all

your kid's inheritance is going to your lawyers. That's it. You're going to end up pretty much, right in the middle-ish. It's a system that works against you, which is why I try, particularly with my first responders, to keep them out of it.

We make mediation so affordable for them. We give them a 25 % discount on mediation services and all the other ancillary services that go along with that from financial analysis to mental health counseling and all of that other stuff. So we want to help them and support them as they're going through something like this so that they stay out of

that meat grinder family law court system. It's only going to just take their money. I just think that there's better ways to do this. And to your point, nobody really knows about it. The biggest brand is Lawyering Up, right? Well, I have to get a lawyer. No, you don't. You guys can do this yourselves. If it's too complicated, maybe you need representation, but there are ways to do this better.

Talk to people that know the system, hate the system, and want to try and help you find other ways to get around the system so that your children still have a college fund.

Sol (25:42)
Yeah. And returning to some of the points you made around the ACE score, divorce is one of the factors, one of the scores just by going through divorce as a child, you are predisposed. You have at least a single point on your ACE. And I have to believe that there is some nuance that's maybe missing in that quiz that sure, you know, it can very much impact children. It will regardless, but

if your divorce is done in the right way with minimizing conflict in front of the kids, that will impact them differently and have different outcomes for them as they grow older.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (26:19)
Yeah. There was a study that I read think it was 26.6 % of participants that had at least one ACE score had divorce from their parents. That was 26 % of all participants that took the thing said that, that's pretty significant, right? It is, it is.

Sol (26:39)
It's big, yeah, it's very impactful.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (26:42)
And with all of that said, I still believe in marriage. I still believe in commitment. There's a statistic with marriage counseling and that's the 50 % of people that go through counseling end up divorced within two to three years. I believe it's because they waited too late

to figure this whole thing out because usually somebody says I want a divorce. No, let's go to counseling.

the The horse is already out of the barn. So yeah.

Sol (27:06)
That's such a good point.

I'm a huge advocate for therapy. I think that even before getting married and signing on the dotted line, couples should be already talking about these things with a therapist, should be having premarital counseling and making sure they're working on their relationship because it's a lifelong journey.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (27:26)
Yeah, I highly recommend. So we have a program called Our Relationship that we bring to the table. It's something you can do at home from the comfort of your living room. But it also has the same exact success rate as in-person counseling. So it's awesome. Also, the Gottman Institute, if anybody's ever heard of them, it's an amazing resource. It's a man and woman, husband and wife that have been researching what

causes people to divorce and they've got it nailed down. So if you understand some of those things and adjust those things in your own relationship, your risk of coming to people like you and me will be lower.

Sol (28:06)
On the subject of technology and resources, do you see the intersection of AI and technology through or stay married or get through divorce and co-parenting?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (28:23)
I think that AI has a space in here. We have an app that we use for our first responders. I actually used it myself. It's called Suno, S-U-N-O. It's called Suno Chat, I think. There's a bunch of Sunos out there.

My daughter's from Asheville. Asheville went through a horrific hurricane and I was really losing my mind as to what happened to her, because all I was seeing was the death and destruction of it on TV and I couldn't reach her. She had no electricity, no internet. It was very scary. I used this app to help me with my mindset, trying to get me calmed down. It was actually really cool.

Sol (28:54)
scary.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (29:01)
I hadn't used it in a few days and when I got back on it, it said, have you heard from your dog?

Sol (29:06)
wow.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (29:06)
So

the more you use it, the more you interact with it, the more it learns your own issues. And it's like that with everything. You feel like you're talking to a human being. A lot of your audience has probably talked to an AI app. They're becoming more and more sophisticated and they sound pretty good. And

while they're not therapists, they are able to give some great strategies and some tips just for my own self to calm myself down. Is your daughter capable of handling a traumatic situation like this?

Yeah, she is. She can do this. Just asking questions, the right questions, being able to talk me off the ledge for a lack of a better word. So AI does have its place. And there are questions I think that you can ask that can get you close.

You can ask a lot of questions and you can learn a lot.

Sol (29:59)
What I'm hearing is it's increasing access and awareness. It's making it so much more accessible to get the help that you need so you can get through these difficult moments, so that you can have a different perspective on some of the things that you're feeling or some of the relational issues you're having.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (30:15)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's been so much research. The guys that wrote the Our Relationship program, they understood how to get quickly to the core problems and then helping you express those things.

And in the case of this program, you can do it with a coach or you can do it without. And so what's the difference? The difference between what it's like to have a live coach and human being, they A, keep the temperature down a little bit better and there's research that shows that you're more likely to continue and complete the program when you have a live coach. But other than that,

it's the program itself that does the work with you-- not for you, but with you.

Sol (30:57)
Yeah, and also I'm a big advocate for people, especially when they're starting out, to engage with a coach because coaches can help you navigate the whole system. They can help you find who to hire and when happens next because they've been through it. So they can actually be a really big cost savings to engage.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (31:15)
Yeah,

There's so many reasons to have a coach that can keep you from stepping in it. Do you know what I mean? And I mean that emotionally, financially and for your children. Think of a divorce coach or a co-parenting coach, just like you would hire a coach to help if your child wants to be a football star.

You got to hire a coach that sits there and takes them from where they are to where they want to be. Understands their goals, understands that they want to play for the best college in the world, Florida State, whatever it is. There are steps and there's a strategy and exercises, the coach doesn't do the work for you.

The coach gets in there and tells you, okay, this is what you need to do. And now you need to increase from running two miles to three miles. And then we're going to add this. And this is how you interview with schools. All of those things, right? That's what a coach does. And that's what a coach does for co-parenting. That's what a coach does for divorce, for life, for your career, a career coach. They all look at where do you want to go, and let's design a plan to help you get there.

And then I'm going to be with you to make sure you're doing the work that you need to do to get to the goal that you want to reach.

Sol (32:27)
What is one piece of advice that you wish that every divorcing parent knew?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (32:32)
Well, we talked about ACES that you're giving them one tenth out of a 10 point scale. Be mindful of your actions and your words, but also know that there are ways to do this that are kinder, gentler, more fair. And you can both end your relationship

with some dignity for yourself, for your former spouse, even though you don't love each other anymore, and as a matter of fact, you may hate each other. That's all understandable and okay. But ultimately, holding onto any of that doesn't do you any good, but more importantly, bringing it into your process just makes it more expensive.

Sol (33:13)
Where can people learn more about your work and the resources that you offer?

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (33:17)
I have three programs now have DivorceRightInc.com. That's inc.com. That's for employers. So if you are an employer, if you're in HR, even if you are a first responder and you want to bring us into your station, into your unit, please reach out to me. I'm Vicky with a Y at DivorceRightInc.com.

Our program is called Fairwell, F-A-I-R-W-E-L-L. That is our coaching program. That's our mediation services. We're here to help however we can. My team is over 100 divorce coaches across the country. I have a team of over 150 mediators across the country. So

whether you have a special needs child, whether this is a religious divorce, whether this is LGBTQ or prearranged marriage. We speak 10 different languages. We have a lot of different specialties: high conflict, personality disorders. So if that is a good fit for your organization, please reach out to me.

And then the last thing that we are doing for our EAP plan is called Bridgewell. It's Bridgewell EAP, and that is the mental health component, 24-7 crisis intervention to regular therapy, but online therapy, divorce support, marriage support, and parenting support. And we're also going to be adding stress management to all of that. And we have a peer-to-peer app

that we love, that people get tremendous support for using. So we're really creating an ecosystem that is designed very specifically to emergency responders. So if that makes sense, I'm Vicky at BridgewellEAP.com. I've got a lot of different ways to reach out to me.

Sol (35:03)
Vicky, thank you so much for being on the program today. Thank you for all of your advocacy and the good work that you do. I hope you have a wonderful day.

Vicky Townsend  Divorce Right (35:09)
Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Sol (35:13)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (35:31)
The commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.