Sol (00:01)
Welcome back to Co-Parenting Beyond Conflict. I'm your host, Sol. Today I'm talking with Greg Wheeler, a coach, a mentor, and honestly just a really wise human when it comes to love, loss, and starting over. Greg's work with conscious uncoupling helps people move through breakups and divorce in a way that's actually healing them, not just for themselves, but for their kids too. This is one of those conversations that stuck with me after we stopped recording.

Greg really opened my eyes to how much power we have to break old patterns and create something better for ourselves, even after everything falls apart. If you've ever wondered whether real healing is possible, I think you'll find a lot of hope here. Let's dive in.

Sol (00:38)
Hi Greg, welcome to the program. It's good having you here today.

Greg Wheeler (00:42)
Hi Sol, it's an honor to be here with you today.

Sol (00:45)
I understand that you are deeply involved with Conscious Uncoupling and you are accomplished in many different areas in your life. How did you get to where you are today?

Greg Wheeler (00:54)
Back in '97, I was divorced and I became a single dad. My former partner moved to Missouri, which was a thousand miles away because I'm in the Princeton, New Jersey area.

And she took the four kids, because that was what the court said. The youngest was six and the oldest was 11. But we had a clause that said that once they turned 12, they could choose once a year where they wanted to live. And when each of the kids turned 12, they chose to come live with me. So I was a single dad in New Jersey with no family in the state. I was a full time engineer, 50.

plus 60 hours a week, I was working as an engineer became quite well respected in the field but then I wound up in a position due to a downsizing

I was out of a job and it was time for me to reinvent myself. Very early January of 2016. And I realized that I wanted to make it easier for single dads because when I was divorced in '97, there was little support and the courts, in my opinion, were not equal as far as men and women, in terms of

how they adjudicated access to the children and parenting rights and things like that. So I felt that there was a need for support for men in particular, but single parents in general. I learned a lot of things the hard way. So I wanted to pass that on so that single parents could do a better job co-parenting and also

do a better job with their kids.

Sol (02:25)
love teaching from a place of having your own experience and then moving through it and helping people move through it. I'm curious about what you're talking about with single dads. It's a unique challenge in this culture to be a single dad. What are some of the challenges you've heard some of your clients work through or have you worked through?

Greg Wheeler (02:45)
I don't want this to sound sexist, but women have a natural affinity for networking and they do it much better than men do in general. I am generalizing because it's not 100 % true because there are stay at home dads who raise the children and the moms go off and are the majority breadwinners. But in general, single dads have

an added challenge because they're not necessarily taught how to create a support network. And that involves building relationships with teachers and babysitters and neighbors and all the neighborhood, your kids' friends, their parents on the block. You can then create a network that if you have an emergency and you can't be in two places,

especially if you have more than one kid, depends on how many kids you have. So you need to build up a network and you need to build up an ability to structure that and contribute when you can contribute so that people are willing to contribute to you when you need help or when you set it up that way.

Sol (03:30)
Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (03:44)
The next important thing is they have to show up during the judicial process in a caring way so that they can be seen as caring and rational. And it's not just a fight that they're there to win.

I wrote a book called Single Dad Essentials: The 12 Most Important Things Single Dads Need to Know. And one of the key premises of that book is you always want to stay focused on what's best for the kids because that's what's best for you in the long run. If your kids are healthy and well adjusted and feel safe and loved and they're not put in the middle, not using them as messengers,

if the kids are happy, they're well adjusted and they feel safe and loved, and they know that the split up is not about them, then your job's gonna be much easier.

Sol (04:24)
What I'm hearing is take the high road and ensure that you're looking out for the kids' best interest. I think for men and women, it's a common experience to feel sucked into this adversarial legal system that we have around family law where there's winners and losers. And I'm sure you would agree, there are no real winners when it comes to family law.

Greg Wheeler (04:46)
No, there's no winners and the biggest losers are the children. Because they feel maybe isolated or tossed around or if you're in a highly anxiety or stressful state, you're not going to have lots of patience and compassion to deal with the little bumps and bruises of life that come along. And so the kids have a tendency to bear the brunt,

when things aren't going smoothly between you and your former partner. And that's even more so because there are some divorces that are really bitter and antagonistic towards one another. And it's almost like they're trying to win. They win by getting the children. They win by keeping more resources. They win by having more visitation rights.

Or they win by getting a stay order so one or the other parent can't actually see the children, and again, who's really losing in that? It's the children.

Sol (05:39)
Yeah, the stakes are so high. and I understand that you are a trainer with Conscious Uncoupling and that you're deeply involved in this work. And for those listeners that aren't familiar with Conscious Uncoupling or they don't really know what it is, could you give us an overview of what that looks like?

Greg Wheeler (05:57)
Yeah, this is gonna be a little deep. So I'm gonna assume that most of your listeners have a little bit of awareness about their selves and their personal journey and some of their habits that they brought into their relationship. Conscious uncoupling is a deep somatic ontological experience. So what does that mean? Somatic means that it's felt in the body.

And ontological means that it's a lived What happens is, during the process, you learn about who you have been, your negative patterns, your belief system that you created when you were little, that you brought in and created the relationship that you had with your former partner.

And so in the course of learning to be a better co-parent, to have more compassion, to be able to know when you're triggered and calm down and re-center so that you can have a generative conversation instead of a conflict, you actually learn that identity that you've created in the environment that you were growing up. And so you get to...

see your negative patterns, you get to name them, you get to face them. And once you face them, then you can embrace them because they were gifted to you, you didn't have a choice, this was just something that you grew up with and you learned. And once you embrace them, then you can replace them with a deeper truth. The deeper truth is who you were born to be before you learned to be who you've been.

You're probably familiar with lot of the discussions around the difference between nature and nurture and things like So I believe that when we become conscious and aware of that false identity, that belief system we created growing up,

we then get to take control of it and not be at its mercy. And we get to provide the missing love, healing, deeper truths to that younger self so that the adult self heals and becomes a better version of themselves.

Sol (07:51)
Yeah, really without that awareness of some of these deeper unconscious drives, what you're saying is that we'll just be playing out those patterns maybe that we got from our parents or their parents and not being aware of these decisions we're making every day of who to partner with, how to interact.

Greg Wheeler (08:03)
for us.

Exactly. And then we train our partner to treat us the way that one of your parents treated the other and the pattern repeats.

Sol (08:18)
wanna stop you there, because I'm really curious. So you said that we are training our partners how to treat us. That feels mind blowing. Tell me more about that.

Greg Wheeler (08:27)
How often when you go on your first date with someone, you dress up a little bit, you're on your best behavior, you're funny and outgoing the first time you meet someone. But this may not be the real you. This may be the person you think the person you're meeting wants you to be.

So from the very beginning, you're not being 100 % honest and being true about who you really are. That comes from the identity that you learned to be when you were little. And it also, this is another mind blowing concept, you probably act like one of your parents. It could be your mother or your father, you are predispositioned

because of how you learned and what you witnessed growing up, to have the behavioral patterns the way one of them did. And it can be either one, and sometimes it's a combination of both, but predominantly usually it's one or the other.

Sol (09:18)
And these are unconscious behaviors that we just do.

Greg Wheeler (09:20)
completely unconscious.

And that's where the title, Conscious Uncoupling, because you need to be conscious to uncouple from this. One of the things that I share about conscious uncoupling is that what you really do first is you consciously uncouple from your negative patterns that you learned as a child. Because you're unconscious of them, you become aware of them, and then you get to choose to show up differently because it's not automatic anymore.

Sol (09:44)
Yeah, I can imagine this is really eye-opening to be able to get to that awareness.

Greg Wheeler (09:49)
It is, it's deep inner work. I caution my clients that I make them do emotional pushups, because it is coaching, it's not therapy. Like any coach, if you had a weight coach or a gym coach,

you make an agreement with your coach. This is what I want to achieve. This is what I want. I want to lose 20 pounds or I want to be able to bench press 225 or whatever that is. Well, in this particular case, what kind of life, what kind of relationships, what kind of parent do you want to be and what's getting in your way? Well, those old patterns, those negative patterns. You can also think of that as family karma. It was

the same pattern that your great great grandparents gave to your great grandparents who gave to your grandparents who gave to your parents and then your parents just gifted it to you. And it all happens between the ages of zero and seven and eight when you don't have an ego or an id yet.

Sol (10:35)
Yeah, just this generational trauma continuing on until one of us stops and is more aware about it.

Greg Wheeler (10:40)
Right. Yeah, there's

a great book about that by Mark Wolynn: It Didn't Start with You.

Sol (10:45)
Interesting, so this process would begin post-separation, during separation?

Greg Wheeler (10:51)
It's a great question because the technology that Katherine created, it's unique in this field. And I'll just expound on that for a moment. A lot of coaches work on behavioral modification. And behavioral modification is the breaking of an old habit, creating a new habit, creating an awareness of the new preferred behavior, and then helping you create the discipline to remember to do that.

What I just shared with you in conscious uncoupling is you literally change the belief system and the identity that caused the old behavior.

While you need to learn how to remember to be centered in the you you were born to be, the true you we call it, so that you can then make decisions and choices from there. But the behavioral patterns many times can change almost instantly because you no longer believe that that's who you are. It's not based on that old identity anymore.

Sol (11:45)
You've actually brought me to another insight, and that's just that, from my own journey, we were in conflict for a long time and I was ready to date, I was ready to move on to the next thing. And I think that might even just going back to the dad thing, it's kind of that is a male thing, right? It's like, I'm going to heal this by just moving on and finding a better one, which obviously in the end, I

found the same pattern...

Greg Wheeler (12:09)
That brings up a really powerful point. So two things.

I love that you became aware that you saw that. And more than just, I'm gonna do something about this, it's actually the male desire to fix it. have this hole that's created by the loss of this person, by the loss of the dreams, by the loss of the sense of purpose and direction that we have wrapped up in that really profound relationship that we've been working on for whatever, five, 10, 15, 20, or 30 years.

Sol (12:38)
Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (12:38)
There's a lot in there. You have to let go of those old dreams and it hurts, it creates a lot of grief. As you said, it's quite typical for the male to go find somebody- I lost one, give me another one. But it doesn't work that way, if you don't do any work in between.

Sol (12:43)
A lot of grief.

Greg Wheeler (12:57)
If you don't capture the learning from what went wrong in your marriage, you're bound automatically, subconsciously, to repeat that pattern in your next relationship.

It shows up in the statistics. If you look at first marriages around the world, about 40 % of first marriages fail. The United States is closer to 50%, but second marriages fail at around 70%. the reason for that is people don't take the time to learn, to do the inner work, to become conscious and aware, to learn their part in co-creating what happened.

So that they make different choices going forward and not repeat it.

Sol (13:36)
Yeah, I mean that bears underlining because I think for anyone who's actually gone through divorce, you don't want to do it again. So the fact that it's even higher suggests there's something going on here. There's a repeated pattern.

Greg Wheeler (13:48)
Right, very much so. So you asked where is conscious uncoupling appropriate, after divorce, during divorce, part of this is a journey. I actually used a conscious uncoupling process with couples who want to recouple.

Because the inner piece is such that they're not the same people they were before they started the conscious uncoupling process. They're actually a better, more compassionate, more honest, much more able to express their feelings, needs, and desires authentically, version of themselves. Probably the greatest thing that causes failure in relationships is

poor communication or no communication. So once you've connected with who you were born to be, your true self, and you're able to really talk about what you like, what you don't like, what's important to you, and set and hold boundaries, then you can create a whole new kind of powerful relationship.

So I actually use conscious uncoupling with people who are thinking about divorce so that they can do it consciously and create a plan that supports the children in the best way possible through it. And that's going to be based on the fact that they learn how to be honest, take responsibility for their part in co-creating it so they can have more empathy and compassion for their partner through this process. And then they can communicate better.

Because they're given better communication skills. It saves a lot of money, it saves a lot of anguish, and it saves a lot of time if you do it before you start the divorce. And part of the reason for that is the closer you actually get to the divorce, the greater the unknown and fear factor becomes. Then that has a tendency to put us in fight or flight. And because it's so scary, we fight.

Sol (15:12)
Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (15:28)
And it becomes litigious it can be very cruel because people think they're fighting for their own survival.

Sol (15:35)
Yeah, it can really get to a very fundamental level. The stakes are so high, the possibility of losing connection to our kids. Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (15:42)
⁓

Now you go from one house to two houses or from one apartment to two apartments. So in many ways, your expenses are doubling.

Sol (15:49)
Yeah, financial instability. Now I can just right now hear some of our listeners saying, well, is this kind of thing for everyone? I don't see my ex ever wanting to change or agree to anything like this. Can people sign up for this program independently?

Greg Wheeler (16:06)
Let me share a little bit about my personal story, it'll partially answer your question. When I first found myself out of a job and I did this work on myself, I signed up for Katherine Woodward Thomas's Conscious Uncoupling, becoming a certified coach. I did this work and I found out that my false identity was wrapped around a belief that I'm not good enough, that others were always better than me. They judged me.

I would be over giving and they would take and then they would leave. Life was hard, lonely, and I could never get exactly what I want. So that's what I discovered was the belief system that was causing me to over give, to not really listen, to not really be honest and to maybe persevere to win.

This was 20 years after my divorce, because I was divorced in '97, and I was doing this in 2016. This was a revelation for me. I healed, my healing changed the energy in the family. It was kind of like magic, because there was no negative pushback. I mean, she could be her. It's not about me.

Sol (17:01)
Hmm.

Greg Wheeler (17:06)
I'm centered in this. I'm more than good enough. I don't have to prove myself to anyone anymore. And so that was connecting to my true self. My kids picked up on it, four kids, and they said, look, it's been over 20 years since we did Christmas together. We really want you and mom to get together and celebrate Christmas together with us. And I said, I'm up for it.

It was like in Christmas of 2018, a couple of years later, that she has this small one bedroom house on a small community on a pond. One bedroom, four kids, three dogs, two adults for four or five days, cooking, sharing drinks, playing games, and exchanging presents. And it was wonderful.

And we've been doing it ever since. It's been a total of six Christmases in a row now that we've been getting together and celebrating Christmas together. And if somebody had told me that this was possible eight years ago, I would have said, what are you smoking? That's crazy. She was bitter. She divorced me. She was mean on the phone sometimes. And so we had a hard time communicating and getting along. But this work, it was

magic in some ways.

Yes, you can do it on your own because whatever future relationship you get in, whatever future relationships you create, and the kind of life you create is gonna be based on the identity that you're living from. If you change that identity, it's gonna help you for the rest of your life to be happier and healthier. It will also likely help you with your ex because you're gonna own the fact that

you can now see that you created some part of it. You're going to have a little bit more tolerance. You're going to understand that it's about him and it's not about you if you're a woman or vice versa. going to create an opening for you to have a different kind of working co-parenting relationship. There are some cases where it may be really challenging or there may need to be some therapy involved in conjunction with it. If someone

is a full blown going to be very difficult for that person to acknowledge their part in co-creating what happened.

Sol (19:12)
But at the end

of the day, what you're saying is it'll allow you to drop the rope more and find peace and that that actually will necessarily change the dynamic.

Greg Wheeler (19:22)
Absolutely. You've heard the analogy,

right? That when you're being bitter and holding frustration and hurt against someone, it's like drinking poison. The only person you're hurting is yourself, or it's like holding onto a burning coal. The only thing that's burning is your hand because you're the one holding onto it. So if you can release that, you're absolutely right. Yeah.

Sol (19:44)
As a co-parent myself, I know how difficult communication can be. That's why I created Best Interest, the co-parenting app that uses advanced AI technology to automatically filter out all negativity, promoting positive communication and helping you create a healthier environment for your family. Try it now and get 10 % off with code Beyond10. Link in the show notes.

Sol AI (20:06)
And now,

back to the show.

Sol (20:08)
Now, Greg, I'm curious to know, when people do some of this inner work and they start becoming more aware of their unconscious patterns, sometimes, I don't know if this is in the work you do, but we start unintentionally blaming our parents, realizing, well, gosh, they did this to me and this is how they... and we wake up to that pattern. But sometimes that can

can create challenges in those dynamics too, with the grandparents.

Greg Wheeler (20:32)
I love that you bring it up. It's a very important point. And one of the things that I help clients to realize is that just like when they were living their life, they didn't know about the negative pattern that they now see and understand. They were actually doing the best they knew how, even though they were still operating from inside of that negative pattern.

It wasn't that they intentionally wanted to hurt their former partner. It wasn't that they intentionally wanted to ostracize them or that they intentionally wanted to cheat on them. They were doing it out of a sense of need or self-preservation or this is what they learned. But they didn't do it intentionally to hurt. So then I helped them see that their parents and their grandparents only could do the best that they could do. It's not that they were intentionally wrong or mean.

This is about being able to hold the complexity of that situation at a much higher level because, maybe they sent you to your room or maybe they ignored you or maybe your father was a drunk and verbally abused you or whatever, It wasn't about you. It was the only way he knew how to get by and survive in that life. And so if you really want to blame him for that,

it might be a little bit unfair because you go back several generations and drinking was a lot more prevalent than it is today. And children were physically abused more in terms of scolding, so that was typical. Did you ever hear about Dr. Spock's book about how to take care of babies?

Sol (21:59)
Yeah, it rings a bell. Remind us.

Greg Wheeler (22:00)
It was very popular in the 60s and 70s. And one of the things that was in there that happened to a whole generation of kids, because it was so popular, was that Dr. Spock proposed that if you go in and take care of a child when the child's crying in the crib, you're going to teach the child to cry every time it wants something. So he said, leave the child alone, let the child cry it out, and then

you won't have the child who knows how to cry all the time when they want something. Well, it absolutely backfired because the child felt ignored, unloved, uncared for, unsafe. So this then created a number of inabilities to handle certain social situations in positive ways. The parents thought they were doing the best they could. They read the book, they were following the prescription,

so are you going to blame them for that? They were trying. They were doing the best they knew how. Even if there's more egregious behaviors that takes place, their father may have treated them a lot worse. Your parents father may have treated them a lot worse than they're actually treating you.

Sol (23:07)
I would imagine too, Greg, as fathers that there will be plenty for our kids to blame us for things that they're doing better than us, things that we were unaware of. As a human race, we're constantly evolving and shifting.

Greg Wheeler (23:23)
I'm

laughing because my kids are older. My oldest is 38, my youngest is 33, and they always remind me about that "You left me standing on the curb for two hours when you were supposed to come pick me up." And it didn't matter that I had a flat tire or something like that, and I couldn't get there any sooner. But that's what they remember.

Sol (23:29)
Yeah.

I the best thing we can do in those situations, at least I hope to, my kids are younger, but I hope to maybe be able to hold those conversations with curiosity and love and realization that I'm not gonna get it all right and I'm doing my best and so did my parents.

Greg Wheeler (23:57)
I love that you mentioned that word curiosity. That is probably the most powerful word in all of communication. Because when we step into judgment, criticism, anger or frustration, we're no longer curious. Communication stops. And you're making assumptions and there's judgment involved.

Sol (24:14)
Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (24:15)
That's one of the most powerful tools that they use in Conscious Uncoupling is being curious about your patterns, being curious about what the other person was really trying to say when they raise their voice and they yell at you. They're communicating something because they don't feel heard, appreciated. But if you can lean in in curiosity and say, wow, I didn't realize this meant so much to you or that this hurt you so much or that this was a

critical part of something that you needed. Tell me more.

Sol (24:43)
Yeah, those are the sweetest words that you can receive as a child. Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (24:47)
Yeah.

Tell me more. Yeah, I love that that you brought it up. Because it opens up a lot of doors. You can see those unconscious behaviors when you lean in.

Sol (24:49)
Yeah, I love that.

Now, when you're working with your clients, what are some of the things that you have seen them realize through this process that is a surprise?

Greg Wheeler (25:05)
There's five steps when I do this program, there's eight sessions. My sessions are long, they're between 90 minutes and two hours because I find that that's what it takes to get to the heart of the subjects.

In step two, we look at the consequences of the negative patterns. In other words, where are you feeling hurt? Where do you have the greatest resentment?

And then so what might have been your part? What might have been your 3 % or your 10 % that you participated in that helped co-create that situation? And when this is done well,

by the end of that discussion, they realized that at least 50 % of some people say: it was all my fault, I didn't listen, I didn't pay attention, I ignored, I put myself first. So that's one of the key ones. And then we learn how to make a proper amends to ourself. I can now see that when I did or didn't this, it had this long list of negative impacts.

And for that I'm truly sorry. I forgive myself. I thank myself for doing the work and leaning in.

And then step three, the biggest aha comes. This is where you actually name the false identity that you created growing up. I shared with you earlier mine that I wasn't good enough.

Then I'm not lovable, I'm not wanted, I don't matter, I don't belong, I'm alone, I'm bad, I'm not safe, to mention a few. And these are typical fear or trauma-based false beliefs that you created in order to survive and inside of that, you've created your life to where you are. I mean, for me,

I'm not good enough. I was working so hard to prove how good I was. So that helped me. But also when it comes to relationship, I was inside of a defense mechanism to keep myself safe.

Sol (26:51)
Well, and isn't it said too that we end up attracting partners and relationships that reinforce those hidden beliefs?

Greg Wheeler (27:00)
Oh my gosh, that's another wonderful topic. So probably about 30 years ago, Harville Hendricks wrote a book called Getting the Love You Want. And in that book, he proposed this idea of Imago theory. In Imago theory, he says that if you walk into a room of 200 people, there's one person you're gonna naturally be most connected to. You've never seen him before. You don't even know them. But you have this intuition that says, I wanna

get to know that person a little more. I'm attracted to that person. And he has all of these things, kind of looks like your mom or dad or the way they carry their body or whatever. I actually believe a little bit more spiritually that it's energetic and you're energetically attracted to that person. Anyway, my whole point is that that person, when you get into a seriously deeply committed relationship,

is the best person in the world to push your buttons. And so the benefit of that, you have the opportunity to level each other up, to work through it, to communicate, to help each other grow.

Sol (28:00)
You're making me think about how in couples therapy, typically what happens is a relationship starts falling apart, and then that's the time they call the therapist, really has already been done, and the four horsemen are out in full display, and so then it's challenging

Greg Wheeler (28:09)
Right, Exactly, yeah.

Sol (28:19)
to right that ship. But what you're talking about is a process then that takes the two individually to do their own work and then come back together potentially

Greg Wheeler (28:30)
When I work with couples, yes, I take them both separately through eight sessions. Complete confidentiality during those first separate eight sessions because I'm there for their individual highest and best good. And then if they want to do joint work,

then they have the tools and they have the language and the things that they discovered that form the basis of what they start sharing in the first joint sessions.

In the middle of the program: you connect with your deeper truth of who you were born to be, which is captured in a power statement. Then they share these things. And then they offer amends to one another. I'm holding that safe space making sure that all the safe, proper, generative communication techniques are in play here.

I'm the only one allowed to interrupt, and I reserve the right to end the meeting if something becomes unhealthy or antagonistic.

Sol (29:22)
Well, and the key here for co-parents is that, you you're working with people that have kids. And so whether they like it or not, this is a relationship that's going to be in their life for the rest of, potentially their days, right? So even if the opportunity of rekindling is not something that's on the table or even desirable, it sounds like this type of work could help them become better co-parents.

Greg Wheeler (29:27)
it.

life! Exactly.

Sol (29:45)
and better parents.

Greg Wheeler (29:46)
Incredibly

Sol (29:47)
On this podcast, we talk a lot about the possibility for growth that is found in divorce. A lot of people experience a life reset, maybe even an identity reset. You mentioned about identity. could tell us a little bit more about that and what people might find at the other end of that.

Greg Wheeler (30:04)
Well, once again, the easiest way is to kind of put it in an example to share that. And so as I shared earlier, I came face to face with the fact that in order to feel good about myself, I needed someone to acknowledge me. I needed someone to value me, to want me because I was inside of, I'm not good enough. So I couldn't value myself

and honor the fact that I'm good enough because God and the universe and a hundred generations of ancestors made it possible for me to be here. So that I'm not good enough when I really got underneath it to my true self, which is what I was just hinting at, is that I'm a gift. I'm worth enough just the way I am. And I don't have to prove myself to anyone.

and you're setting boundaries, and then you're standing up for yourself and enforcing boundaries about your needs. So you're absolutely right that, yes, you can grow and improve. And that's what I said about the Imago theory. You're going to get hooked up or married to someone

who's best qualified to push your buttons and that's where that opportunity for growth comes from if you're willing to lean in and be in curiosity and take advantage of it. If you're not, if you're stuck inside of that you're good enough, then you're not gonna be open to listening and leveling up. You're gonna be able to get and prove that you deserve it.

Sol (31:19)
Yeah.

Really well said, Greg. I am curious about now that you've had this experience in your life and you've done these trainings and you've become an educator of this process in your own life, what advice would you have for an earlier version of Greg, just getting started on your co-parenting journey?

Greg Wheeler (31:42)
I would suggest that you invest in yourself enough to go through one of these courses. It could be Calling in the One or Conscious Uncoupling, so that you do this work about understanding that false identity that you've been living inside of.

Because otherwise you're going to bring that baggage into your marriage. And you're going to build a life around it because it's automatic. It's like a fish in water, right? You're swimming in your own life experience and your own family karma and your own belief system. And you're just going to bring it with you I wish I was able to teach this at a college program, so that

people had a chance to experience it early. I have had the joy of working with some 20 year olds and it's just amazing to see what they've done with their lives after this work.

Sol (32:32)
What an amazing thing if our culture were to take this type of work more seriously earlier on before we make the decisions that we end up making.

Greg Wheeler (32:38)
Yeah.

There's a bias against it.

You could call it a caste system, you could call it a patriarchal system, you could call it just history that's been handed down. But there's a bias against that. Where there's an expectation

that it's not necessary for men to do that because they're going to be and they're going to for most of the decisions. But the really healthy, happy, loving relationships are a team. And by the way, a team environment is a great model for co-parenting.

In a really healthy co-parenting, then you may even still take vacations with them. And if you're both partnered up, it may now be the four of you, a larger nuclear family has now formed, and you can do that.

You can tell I'm passionate about this.

Sol (33:34)
You paint a very hopeful and beautiful picture for a lot of our listeners. What happens for me to hearing that is that I want people to be realistic about what's achievable in their situation, but also to have hope and a belief that things can shift over time, that the past in the distance can feel a lot less

intense than it does today. And to have patience.

Greg Wheeler (34:00)
I totally get that, but I'm going to challenge you on that too. Because you want to have an intention for something that's bigger than what you have. And you're also going to have to be willing to change. You're also going to have to be willing to try new things. Because if you don't try new things, yes, it's going to stay the same. Nothing's going to change until something changes. I know that sounds redundant, but it's very true. And so you need to be willing to have a vision that's bigger,

that's going to call you to change something so that there can be the possibility of some hope, even though it might be difficult or challenging. And you may never get it. But at least you're making steps. You're growing yourself and becoming more conscious. And all of these things can amount change, which create a new possible positive opportunity.

Sol (34:48)
Not waiting for the other to change or to shift, but knowing that you're the only one who can decide. Yeah.

Greg Wheeler (34:51)
Yeah, exactly. And not just waiting for time to go by. I mean, you're stuck in that

situation. You were just waiting for time to go by. And I'm an optimist here. When you're proactive, you maybe don't know what's going to show up. But if you're not proactive, you know exactly what's going to show up.

Sol (35:08)
Yeah, I really appreciate that message of hope, Greg. For our listeners that are curious about Conscious Uncoupling or Calling in the One or just interested in connecting with you, what's the best way to do so?

Greg Wheeler (35:11)
it.

The best way is to take a visit to my website, which is GregWheelerCoaching.com. And if you want to reach me individually, my email address is Greg@GregWheelerCoaching.com. And if you go to my website, you can also find a link to download either a digital or purchase a paper copy of my book. And there are a number of tabs because I do offer a number of different

kinds of coaching because this deep work is available to make positive changes in number of different areas in people's lives.

Sol (35:53)
Great, we'll put those links in the show notes. Thank you for being on the podcast today, Greg. It was a pleasure.

Sol (36:00)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (36:18)
The commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.