Sol (00:01)
Welcome to Co-Parenting Beyond Conflict. I'm your host, Sol. If you're co-parenting with someone who seems to be able to make everything just a little bit harder, this episode is for you. Today, I'm joined by Christina McGee, a speaker, coach, and divorce parenting expert who helps families navigate divorce by keeping the focus on where it belongs, on the kids. We talk about how to set boundaries without guilt, how to stop trying to fix what you can't control, and why creating small, meaningful moments with your kids matters more than getting it all right.

This conversation is full of heart, clarity, and hope. Let's dive in.

Sol (00:33)
Hi Christina, welcome to the podcast. It's so good having you here today.

Christina McGhee (00:36)
It's pleasure to be here, Sol. ⁓

Sol (00:39)
So how are we finding you here today?

Christina McGhee (00:41)
I would say that I'm feeling really good and I'm really excited to have this conversation because even though it's a hard topic to talk about, it's something I'm really passionate about. And I feel like can really make a difference for so parents to know that they're not alone. And so thank you for the opportunity to share information and to be here and for doing this podcast.

Sol (01:03)
I could thank you for the same things. So you've worked with lot of parents over the years navigating these intense challenges. would you describe as your core approach to supporting co-parents? What lens do you take to this discussion?

Christina McGhee (01:15)
I come at it from an angle of how do we keep kids at the center and not in the middle of their parents divorce? Very early on in my career, I was always really passionate about how can we help kids navigate difficult transitions, divorce being huge because it changes life on every single level. And one of the things I learned early on is I could give kids all the skills in the world, but if they didn't have an environment that supported those skills,

some of those philosophies about not feeling responsible for your parents' feelings and not feeling like you had to take sides, I really needed to dive into educating parents. And that's kind of where my work in this area began as a parent educator who taught court mandated parenting courses for parents that were going through divorce. And I got the opportunity to stand in front of thousands of parents and hear about their struggles,

their challenges, their perceptions, their wins, the things that kept them up at 2 a.m. at night. It was a real education for me. And then from that point, I moved into working exclusively with parents. And then it led me to training professionals who are kind of like those first points of contact that can really influence how parents embrace this transition.

Sol (02:30)
I love that you're extending your workout to other professionals so that they can support co-parents in this way.

Christina McGhee (02:35)
Yeah, well, let's face it, somebody like me, I'm usually one of the last points of contact because a lot of parents get very overwhelmed. And in those early stages, right, when the emotions are highest, they're focused on lawyers, mediators, they're not looking at coaches or people that can really support them through this from using that different lens. And so I felt like it was really important for their

first points of contact to have good information so they could do a better job of guiding parents, giving them educational support, and really referring them, like pointing them in the right direction to get more help.

Sol (03:10)
Yeah, that's a really good point that oftentimes when we start this, we're in that heavy conflict and many of us, we don't have the support network or the co-parenting team that includes a therapist and a mediator and people that can actually help us support our kids in the right way.

Christina McGhee (03:26)
Well, and we're so flooded with emotion. We feel very vulnerable in those moments. And it makes sense that your focus would be on protecting yourself. How am going to get through this legal process, especially when you're dealing with a high conflict co-parent who's thrown everything they have at you? And the court system is not designed to really support the integrity of families, of parent-child relationships. There's a very narrow scope

that the courts can address in terms of families. Those tools don't necessarily get introduced to parents at a time when they need them most.

Sol (03:59)
Yeah, they sure don't. One thing I really love about your work is just how practical it is, how practical your advice is. And you're not asking for parents to be perfect, but just be present, right? And what are some of the key takeaways that you hope parents walk away from reading your work or working with you?

Christina McGhee (04:05)
and

Mm,

I would say one of the biggest takeaways is really how they approach this process. Especially when you're dealing with high conflict, we tend to put all our energy into the external things, like what our co-parent does or doesn't do, or the latest conflict, the latest argument, the latest disagreement, and drop into that place of, my gosh, you can't believe what they've done now. Look what they're doing now.

And I hope that parents in accessing the resources I provide can get the perspective of really turning more internally and tapping into what they can control. Right? Because at any given moment, you really have no control over how your co-parent characterizes you, what they accuse you of. But you can always control how you show up, how you respond.

⁓ Being able to keep your kids at the center as the focus, like really approaching this from a child-centered way, that's all well within your control. And the truth is, is that when we are calm, grounded, and showing up as a sturdy presence for our kids, our kids stand a much better chance of getting through this process and growing up to be happy, healthy human beings.

Sol (05:29)
Yeah, and not repeating the same mistakes that maybe we've had or made. So many parents that I talk to, many of our listeners, customers, describe this situation of being in a high conflict relationship as being something they never signed up for and never expected. Often they feel trapped and like it's something that they can't get out of. What's your advice to parents who feel like they're stuck

Christina McGhee (05:31)
Mm. Yeah.

Sol (05:53)
communicating with someone who seems determined to, if not destroy them, provoke them, manipulate the situation, triangulate.

Christina McGhee (05:59)
There's a couple of things. So one of my first tips is get crystal clear about your values. How is it that you want to show up in this space for your kids? you look back on this, when your kids look back on this time in their lives, what will you have done to make them proud? I think that's a really powerful question to consider. And so one of the tools that I introduce parents to very early on

⁓ and it works especially well with high conflict situations is I ask them to develop a guiding principle. And a guiding principle is kind of a simple two to three sentence statement that really articulates what are your highest values as a co-parent? Really how do you want to show up for your kids? And when you have kind of that anchoring statement, I tell them to think about it like as defining a direction.

Where do you want to head? What's your North Star? You can use it as a touchstone throughout the process. When you are struggling with a situation and you're wondering, how do I even respond to this? where I want to be. This is my foundation. How does my next choice support these values that I've outlined?

And I've had parents that have come back to me, had a mom recently that wrote an email to me and said that her guiding principles she found she kept returning to, to just kind of remind her of what she was capable of, how she could stand solid in her principles and her convictions. And so when things kicked off between her and the co-parent or her son was really struggling, she could go back to that and it really helped calm her down

so that she could do a better job of really approaching the situation.

Sol (07:31)
And really reminding, it would remind us of what our intention is going into this, right? And who we are. Could you give us some examples of what a guiding principle might look like?

Christina McGhee (07:36)
Mm, yeah.

Well, it can look a number of different ways. So this tool, in some divorce situations, I have parents create one together so that they can be centered in their own statement about how they're going to work together in their co-parenting relationship. And in high conflict situations, I may have a parent craft their own. So an example might despite the fact that we're no longer partners,

we will always be parents and my intention is to do everything I can really support my children in making sure that they have a good relationship with each parent and to minimize conflict to the best of my ability. Now that's just kind of off the cuff, right? But there's a lot of different ways. You know, back in the day, my early days of working with co-parents, I would have like a handout worksheet and I'd have them work through a couple of questions

to start crafting to help them brainstorm some ideas. Now with the way technology is available to us, I decided to bump it up a little and I developed a customized GPT that ask parents a series of reflective questions and then gives them the option of helping them craft their statements. So it's a real easy way to drop into a moment. It doesn't have to take you very long, but

then you print that statement out and you put it places where you can see, put it on the fridge, make it a screensaver on your phone, put it next to, get your favorite picture of your kid, write it on the back of there, carry it around in your wallet or your pocketbook. But just how can you keep these principles top of mind? And I think when you get clear about what your values are, it makes it easier

stay calm, to stay grounded because you know the direction you're headed. You've got an intention in place.

Sol (09:23)
Yeah, I love that. I'm a huge fan of also printing things out and putting them on my wall. It's a great way to just have that daily reminder of things you don't want to forget.

Christina McGhee (09:33)
Well, yeah, because life, especially when you're going through divorce, right? Everything's turned on its head. It's a leveling process. Everything's changing all at once and not just in one moment in time, but over an extended period of time. And so we need those. I'm a big believer in those visual reminders.

Sol (09:52)
Now, I got a lot out of watching your documentary, Split, and what really struck me was, besides my own children, I don't know if I've ever really understood, even for my own children. I don't know if I've ever really been able to understand the perspective from a child. I've never seen it captured in that way. So it was really helpful to see

Christina McGhee (10:07)
Mm.

Sol (10:12)
and hear from children going through a family that has gone through divorce and what their experiences are like.

Christina McGhee (10:18)
Yeah, the Split documentaries are incredibly I can talk to parents all day long about how kids are impacted by divorce. But when you hear from the real experts, kids themselves, it's very insightful and gives you an opportunity to really see the experience through your children's eyes. There are so many things that kids navigate behind the scenes

that just don't make it on our parenting radar. We are just not aware of how much our choices and our attitudes and the dynamics impact our kids and how they internalize the sense of fairness. How much they worry about keeping things balanced between parents and keeping parents happy. And so it is an opportunity. And Ellen Bruno, the person who's the creative genius behind the films,

did a really beautiful job of capturing that on so many different levels. First with the young kids and then going back and re-interviewing the same kids 10 years later gives you just this like amazing kind of longitudinal look at how divorce plays out.

Sol (11:21)
One of the insights that has stuck with me is just how common it is for kids to experience a desire for their parents to get back together and how difficult that is to hold as a What would you say to a parent on how we can support our kids that are experiencing those feelings while it's not even really appropriate for them to hold

the conflict that we might have experienced leading up to that. How can we explain to our kids about divorce and separation in a healthy way?

Christina McGhee (11:54)
I tend to come from the perspective of looking at divorce as a change in the family, not the end of the family. This is one way some families change. And just because we're no longer partners, it doesn't mean we won't always be your parents. We will always be there for you. And the formation of the family has changed. can be really hard for parents because parents and kids are moving in very different directions. Parents are

thinking like, can I get a degree of separation from this relationship, from this person, be independent? And kids are moving more towards the family, trying to maintain those attachments and that sense of belonging and connection. I think it's really important for parents to understand that that wish that things could go back to the way they were or that their parents would have been able to work things out is really normal.

It doesn't go away quickly. And to do your best to hold space for kids, to be able to process that and talk about it. And that is really the key. Do we have the wherewithal to give our kids the opportunity to be their container, to talk about the hard things, the tough things, the things they wish for and normalize those by saying things like,

Yeah, I know. It makes sense that you would wish that things would have worked out differently. That makes sense to me. Lots of kids, when their parents split up, have that wish. So we're letting kids know you're not alone. This makes sense. It's understandable. And sometimes things change. Things happen in life that we can't control.

Sol (13:19)
and just.

A recent post that you made on Instagram stated, "you don't need to turn yourself inside out to create meaningful moments for your kids." I remember during one of the more difficult moments early on in the divorce, I would often take my kids out for a drive in my truck.

Christina McGhee (13:32)
Mmm.

Sol (13:41)
and we'd have a picnic in back of the truck. And I liked it because we weren't making a mess anywhere. It was really easy. And the kids loved it because it was unique and fun. What are some ideas or suggestions that you might give to a parent who's feeling just stuck in the drama of the divorce, but allowing their kids to have the safety of having a present parent for them?

Christina McGhee (14:02)
Hmm, that's a great question. I think it starts with you, If we want to show up as a present parent, we have to be able to be that stable, sturdy parent, remove those distractions. I think it's important for us to send a message if we want our kids to believe that we're going to be OK, they're going to be OK, we're still going to be a family, then we need to continue to act

like a family. And a lot of times as parents we get caught up in the daily grind or the drama of the divorce and we stop doing things like having picnics in the back of a pickup truck. So I would encourage parents to do their best to be very intentional about creating those points of connection with their kids and it could be simple as having bedtime routine where we read a story every night,

or we have family dinner night every Wednesday and maybe we sit under the table instead of at the table or maybe we have dessert first. Or just taking walks. Just being in the moment, but really giving kids our undivided attention. And it doesn't have to be for hours on end. It can just be

20 minutes before bed or right after school where you're sitting and you're playing Legos. Because the truth is, that when kids reflect back on their lives, like the standout moments for them are not going to be when they got that new special expensive something or, the third time they went to Disney World. It's going to be the back of the truck having the picnic and falling asleep on the way home. Those are the things that are really going to stay with kids.

Sol (15:35)
Yeah. As a co-parent, oftentimes there are these moments of intense, just intensity.

How do you help co-parents cultivate that calm that I know you often speak of, especially when their ex is just creating a wave of chaos in their lives?

Christina McGhee (15:51)
I think there's a couple of things. One, I would encourage parents not to go it alone. Like if you are in a high conflict situation, you need to have a circle of support. I tell parents it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame. Who do you have in your life that can give you that perspective outside of your frame, so that you can stay aware and have that

presence for your kids? The other key element is we have to stop looking at self care as a luxury and look at it as a necessity. Because whether you're divorced or you've been married for really long time, we all parent differently when we're well rested, when we've eaten lunch that day, when we've gone out and exercised, we got a good night's sleep as opposed to when we haven't.

Having a circle of support and making time for yourself, doing things like creating a guiding principle, having something on the bathroom mirror. Where can you give yourself cues and reminders that are gonna help you come back to that moment? And the other thing is just very simple stuff. Like when you feel like you're getting triggered,

just pause, take a breath in, let your nervous system calm. You don't have to swing at every co-parent throws your way. And you also can make a choice about when you respond, Not responding is a response. And you can give yourself the time to really think through versus that knee-jerk reaction.

Sol (17:18)
Oftentimes when we talk about co-parenting, in general, we talk about collaboration. And earlier in this interview, you talked about grounding principles and working on those with your co-parent. And that is a beautiful image. But for many of us, especially right now, it feels impossible to ever be in that, to get to that place.

would you recommend for someone that is feeling that way? Do you ever recommend having a more parallel parenting approach to co-parenting? Is that ever effective?

Christina McGhee (17:48)
Sometimes, it depends. Parallel parenting is approach when there's a lot of conflict, a lot of tension, a lot of animosity, and very low level of cooperation, if any. So in parallel parenting, it's kind of about thinking of each household as an island.

They're just operating on their own island with their own structure, their own rules, their own interactions. There's very little communication or exchange going on between the two. But like everything else, parallel parenting exists on a continuum. It's not a situation of either it is or it isn't. It's really about assessing where you are on the continuum

and allowing that to guide your response. You come to those realizations by engaging with someone who doesn't have emotional investment into your specific situation, who can help you gain some perspective. The other thing I find is that a lot of times parents will characterize themselves as high conflict when they don't actually meet the definition, at least not in my experience.

it feels like it because the communication is shut down because there is a lot of tension because there is a lot of arguing or disagreeing about how things should be. And for a lot of families after some time passes or if one parent makes a commitment to do things differently.... any change shifts the system. you are in a situation where you have

a co-parent that's in it to win it, it's important to remember the power of one. It takes one parent to show up, to not engage in the conflict, to be grounded for the kids, to be consistent, predictable, nurturing, and kids can still do remarkably well. Kids are gonna fare better if one parent gets it together than if nobody gets it together. And so you do have

Sol (19:30)
Hmm.

Christina McGhee (19:37)
power to make a difference even if you can't change the dynamic with your co-parent just by how you respond.

Sol (19:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I hear a lot from listeners and customers of BestInterest about how often they get in their heads about interactions with their why did I say that? You're walking away from an exchange thinking, I should have said it differently. How do you get co-parents past

this idea and guilt of everything needs to be perfect.

Christina McGhee (20:06)
⁓ Well, first and foremost, I tell them, whether you're divorced or you're married, no parent gets it right 100 % of the time. We just don't. Myself included. Gosh, the number of mistakes that I've made as a parent. So be gracious with yourself. The other thing is that when you mess up, you can fess up, right? I spend a lot of times talking with parents about,

Maybe you didn't show up for your kids in that moment the way you wanted to. Maybe they saw you lose it with your co-parent or you railed about something they said, that caught you off guard. You can circle back to your kids and you can reframe that and you can say, you know what, in that moment, did not show up for you the way I wanted to. I was feeling really frustrated and that frustration got the best of me. Here's what I want you to know. I'm going to try harder.

Then you have a conversation with your kids and what a powerful example you're setting for your kids that when you make a misstep, you own it. Right. And then you do something about it. You try to repair or reconstruct or realign. And I think that's a great thing for kids to see parents do. So don't be so afraid

of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing, it will happen. And when it does, what's more important is what you do about.

Sol (21:24)
I really love that point. I think in every relationship, the ability to circle back and repair and own our parts that's what creates a good relationship. So by modeling, I'm an imperfect parent, I'm an imperfect person, that's modeling for kids that they can be imperfect too. They can make mistakes too. And what really matters is how we recover from the mistakes.

Christina McGhee (21:35)
We do.

Yes.

Right, that we use them as opportunities to learn. Learn about ourselves, learn about situations, learn new skills, instead of looking at them as something we should flog ourselves over.

Sol (21:59)
Is there a moment in your work that has really struck you? Maybe a surprise or a success story.

Christina McGhee (22:06)
Gosh, there have been a lot of them over the years and there's been many that I've never heard of, My window of opportunity for working with parents is fairly narrow in the grand scheme of things. I might coach a parent and then they move on with their life. And I really have no idea as many professionals in this work, just what kind of seed you planted and how those seeds flourished, what happened. I will tell you that,

just a couple of days ago, I got a call from a dad that I worked with who was in a really difficult divorce, very high conflict situation on the verge of making a decision, do I push through court or do I find another way? What is gonna be the best for my kids?

And he was dealing with a co-parent who had a lot of mental health issues, who had said some really outrageous things to the kids. Kids were getting put in the middle. I probably worked with him, for two or three years, which is unusual. I usually don't work with parents that long, but the circumstances, he needed that touchstone. And he just called me last week and said, just want to let you know, I reunited with my children. Things are really good.

They're doing really good. And we're making it work. And when we started that work, if I was to ask that parent, do you think we ever would have gotten there? He would have said, unequivocally, absolutely not. So I think it's important for parents to add these two words to their vocabulary. And the two words are for now. For now, things are really difficult.

I don't have the co-parenting relationship I'd like to have for now. And to hold space for hope that things can be better or different in the future. I don't think you have to be best friends with your co-parent in order to do it well, but maybe there's space for things being more calm for you both to show up at graduations or weddings

and the daggers aren't flying across the room, that you can get to a place where you can cooperate, communicate, and really just show up for the kids.

Sol (24:05)
Yeah, it can get really dark sometimes. Myself, I'm a strong catastrophizer. And so that idea of holding room for things to get better someday, maybe today is difficult, but tomorrow may be better. Next week might be better, right?

Christina McGhee (24:07)
ready.

Ha ha.

I've seen a lot of things happen in this space. Parents that were really at each other's throat and you would think, ⁓ we are never going to get there. And surprisingly, they do. You know, things do get better.

Sol (24:35)
to bring back in your earlier point too, sometimes just takes one. It takes you to change for the relationship to change.

Christina McGhee (24:43)
Yes. The change may just be not participating in it. You know, when I'm working with high conflict co-parents that are in these kinds of dynamics, I say to them, have you ever played tug of war? And they're like, well, yeah. I said, okay, what happened to tug of war? You know, each person has an end to the rope and they're like pulling back and forth until somebody yanks it just hard enough to make the other person cross the line. Well, what happens if one person drops the rope?

And they say, well, the game's over. And I'm like, exactly. So think of your conflict as a rope and you each have hold of it and you have a choice, right? You can keep yanking, trying to prove your point that you're right, that they're wrong, or you can choose to drop the rope. Where in your co-parenting relationship are there opportunities for you to drop the rope?

Sol (25:27)
I love that, drop the rope.

As co-parents, oftentimes we are also learning to navigate relationships in a new learning how to set boundaries. And for many of us, that's the first time we've ever done that. Especially when it comes to setting boundaries with your co-parent, sometimes we will receive a lot of pushback from

our co-parents saying, we're not being We're creating tension by setting these boundaries. How do you help parents navigate setting boundaries, staying grounded, realizing that it's okay to have these boundaries?

Christina McGhee (26:03)
I think this goes back to an earlier point that we talked about. In order to be clear about setting boundaries, you need to be clear about what your values are, what your intentions are, what grounds you. Cause it's very hard to set boundaries if you haven't really taken a look within. So we're talking about going back internally and kind of just assessing: What matters to me and how do I want to show up?

and what are my priorities? If it's to minimize the conflict, then that's a guiding principle for me in terms of how I set boundaries. I think the other thing that's important for us to remember in addition to getting clear about those boundaries is what is the intention behind them.

And it's really not about how your co-parent responds. Your co-parent can characterize you any way they want at any given moment. It really has more to do with you and your response. Having, again, your circle of support, people who can give you feedback.

I think can go a long way, but that intention piece, here's an example. Sometimes when infidelity has been an issue in a relationship and there is a parent who says, "my kids need to know the truth about them. They need to know that I am not the one who cheated. I'm not the one that created this divorce. The other parent did."

I encourage parents to ask themselves a couple of clarifying questions. And that is, how will my sharing this information with my children make things better? How might it make things worse? How might it impact their connection and perspective about the other parent? And am I feeling a need to share this information with my children because they need to hear it or because I need to tell it?

So that's the really good way of getting very clear about what is motivating, what's behind the intention. Conflict shows up in all different forms and shapes, and most of the time we're focused on what the other parent is doing, but we're not necessarily owning our own part in keeping the cycle going. And that comes back to learning new ways of communicating, redefining your relationship.

Just because you got divorced doesn't mean all those patterns are just going to disappear into thin air. It's been said that couples don't have hundreds of arguments. They have the same argument hundreds of times.

Sol (28:20)
I believe that.

Christina McGhee (28:21)
So how are you like assessing your part? Where are your limits and boundaries that kind of line up with what your values are and use that to guide your decisions.

Sol (28:32)
Well, and it can be really challenging for kids to be involved in that drama triangle that can be created through those types of complaints.

Christina McGhee (28:37)
You're doing it. You're doing it.

Yeah, kids hear a lot more than they should, especially when there's a lot of conflict. I think there's some key messages that kids need to hear. One of the primary ones is like, you don't have to pick and choose. You don't have to take sides. You don't have to figure out who's right or wrong. Our problems are not your problems. Just because mom gets angry with dad doesn't mean you need to be angry with dad.

Just because dad is upset with mom doesn't mean you need to be upset with mom. You get to love each of us as much as you want. This is such a big conversation, but I think it's important as parents that we're giving our children a context for understanding their lived experience. And if their lived experience is conflict, how do we help them understand that it is not about them? Cause almost all kids feel

a strong sense of responsibility for parent problems, for parent conflicts, for arguments. Parents are very slow to buy into this. They really, don't believe it. And I've had parents say, "come on, Christina, my kids don't really think it's their fault." And I'm like, well but if you think about it like a kid, what do separating and divorcing parents spend most of their time arguing about?

Kids. Where are Johnny's soccer shoes? Who's paying for summer camp? They should go to this school, not that school. And so the way kids see it, if all the arguments are about me or have to do with me, how can it not? How can it not be my fault?

Sol (30:01)
Yeah, that's so hard.

Christina McGhee (30:02)
Mm-hmm. It is.

Sol (30:04)
Circling back to this term you used a couple times, the circle of support, who would you recommend co-parents bring into that circle? What types of professionals or friends?

Christina McGhee (30:08)
Mm-hmm.

I think it depends on your resources. Some parents have the resource to engage with a divorce coach or a co-parent counselor. Even if you're working with a family lawyer, are you seeking out a family lawyer that aligns with your values? How you can get through this process with integrity?

Or are you looking for, somebody who's going to be your warrior? Like get in there and slay your co-parent. Those are things to think about. I think if engaging with professionals is not something that you have the resources for, then looking for friends or family members who are going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. People who are not going to add fuel to the fire.

We are very influenced by the other people in our herd. We are not the only ones that are impacted by divorce. It's not just us and our kids, but also extended family members, friends. They feel like they need to take sides or they need to make a decision or the way to support you is by trashing the other parent.

Even if there's a high level of conflict, even if that co-parent is not showing up in a respectful or cooperative way, they are still your child's parent. They are always going to be the only mom and dad your kids are ever going to have. And kids really look at themselves as 50 % of each parent. And so when they're hearing trash talking, even if it's meant to be supportive,

It damages their self-esteem and their identity. It's important to really walk those lines very carefully how you approach that.

Sol (31:48)
Well, and to remember that our kids have their own relationship with our co-parent that actually has nothing to do with So even if we're high conflict situation, we're going to court every day, our kids aren't having that experience. They probably have a wonderful relationship with their mom or dad. And it's best if we let them have that relationship.

Christina McGhee (31:55)
Great.

Yeah, I tell parents the quality of the marriage does not determine the quality of the parent-child relationship. They're two completely separate entities. And you when you were talking about support, I think there's lots of ways to tap into supportive resources as well. Podcasts like this one, right? You can drop into a conversation and that can support you

as a parent terms of shaping your thinking or just helping you realize you're not alone. That there's lots of parents that are going through this and struggling and maybe not getting it perfectly right. There's books, but instead of thinking about reading a book cover to cover, maybe you just go in and you read one chapter. I wrote a book, Parenting Apart,

I wrote it to be user friendly. And so I tell parents in the very beginning of the book, go to the table of contents and just find one chapter that's going to resonate with you or seems like it addresses where you are right now. And just read that one chapter, it'll give you enough information to start making different choices and to do things differently. And then maybe you move on to the next chapter. But I find that looking for help

is often just as overwhelming as needing it.

In that moment, we get so overwhelmed with the idea of looking for help it we just don't. The other resource that I would offer to your listeners and community is that on my website, DivorceAndChildren.com I offer parents a free co-parenting resource guide and it's 30 pages long and it's got all kinds of different resources. So if you're looking for a starting place, there's books for kids by age and stage.

There's books for co-parents, there's books for dealing with conflict recommendations, podcasts, co-parenting apps, like just lots of resources that can be beneficial. If you don't know where to get started, that might help you out.

Sol (33:53)
Great, we'll put those links in the show notes and also a link to your GPT ⁓ grounding exercise.

Christina McGhee (33:59)
yeah, absolutely. And I encourage parents

and if you feel so me a line and let me know how worked for you. I'd love to hear.

Sol (34:07)
I'm a big proponent of technology helping co-parents. So thank you for the work you're doing in that area too.

Christina McGhee (34:11)
Yeah.

Well, it's

very interesting work.

Sol (34:15)
Before we go, is there one message or parting word of wisdom that you can impart upon our listeners?

Christina McGhee (34:22)
We've talked a lot about really staying focused on what you can do, not what you can't do. I think when you are in a really difficult co-parenting situation, it's important to remember that, there may not be things that you can do to make

to make the situation better with your co-parent. But it's also important not to forget that at any given moment you do have the capability to make it much worse. Sometimes the best you can do is not make it worse. Toe the line, keep showing up, be that lighthouse for your kids, hold that space for hope.

Be grounded, be sturdy, be stable, and that really can make such a difference for your kids and how they get through this. While it may not seem like it in the moment, years from now, they will remember, they will value the fact that you didn't make it worse, that you did what you could to be that stable force in their lives. Yeah, and just be kind to yourself.

Sol (35:18)
I love that. Christina, thank you so much for your insights today. I've really enjoyed having you on the podcast.

Christina McGhee (35:23)
It's been a pleasure. Thanks for the conversation.

Sol (35:26)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (35:44)
The commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.