Sol (00:01)
Cherie, welcome to the podcast. It's so good to have you on today.

Cherie Morris (00:04)
Sol, thank you for having me.

Sol (00:06)
How are we finding you today?

Cherie Morris (00:07)
You are finding me pretty relaxed and looking forward to working with a couple of clients this afternoon and teaching some of the somatic healing stuff tomorrow night.

Sol (00:17)
Well, for those that are just listening, unfortunately, you're missing a lovely view out of your office, Cherie. I see water in the background. It looks really nice there.

Cherie Morris (00:26)
We relocated from the East Coast a couple of years ago and I said if we're going to move, I need to see water. And fortunately for me, we have that opportunity.

Sol (00:35)
That's a high priority for me too. Cherie, I understand you got started in your career as an attorney and you have shifted into a coaching role. Can you tell us more about that journey and what caused you to make that shift?

Cherie Morris (00:49)
I sure will, Sol. Thank you for asking. I was an attorney for a very long time. I certainly love to focus on mediation where people will come together and cooperate when possible. But I still found a prevalence of 'I may even win but I'm still not happy.' And for me that gap, that existing lack of joy even on the other side of family systems who had gone through what they thought was a more

cooperative separation and divorce, was problematic. And I decided to do some more work. I had already been certified as a yoga teacher and decided that maybe this journey for couples could be much more healing and well navigated with additional tools that had less to do with the law, which will never make you and more to do with how we navigate our own journey and path.

That's why I did it and I work a lot with high conflict people. So it's interesting that my path to this work, full-time coaching from the law has resulted not in me not having to deal with any conflict. No, it's really the opposite. It's helping people find peace even in the midst of the conflict.

Sol (02:02)
I love how you put that. That's how I think of this podcast is that we're helping people navigate what can be such a challenging situation and where they feel stuck and how we can move past that and find peace even in the chaos that surrounds us.

Cherie Morris (02:18)
And somehow it will always find us, right? There always will be some version of chaos. Obviously we can look at it in the larger world now and how do we find peace and do our best to navigate the way we know we need to and still take care of ourselves.

Sol (02:34)
Yeah, so important, especially when we have kids, to keep the conflict low.

Cherie Morris (02:37)
Yes.

I think one mistake people make, is thinking that by sharing or oversharing, as I would suggest with kids about what's happening between two adults, helps them in some way. So sometimes it's really skill building, learning what works, what doesn't, to help us create functional adults, which is really our goal when we have children, I think, and understanding that being right won't always make you happy. So what do we do to

do that work and find that journey. And that's the work I do all the time with individuals and couples.

Sol (03:10)
Cherie, one of the reasons that I was really excited to speak to you today is that I know on Instagram you talk a lot about the importance of slowing down. And I'd love to talk to you more about this because when you're in a high-conflict situation, oftentimes it can be very reactive. You get a message from your co-parent. It's like, I got to do something. I got to do something right now. How do you navigate that? How do you coach your clients through this?

Cherie Morris (03:35)
I think that is a central and important point, Sol, and I think the main lesson to take away from that is that's your nervous system artificially engaged in a battle you'll never win. So in order to actually calm ourselves and calm the family system and the relationship you have with your co-parent, we need to resist the nervous system, which is trying to protect us, in it's imperfect way by getting us excited about something. And instead look to

calm ourselves in those moments so that we can be responsive rather than reactive.

Sol (04:06)
A lot of these situations, these are survival instincts that come up. We feel threatened. Our connection with our kids, which is so important, feels threatened. But yet, oftentimes, the speed can be a detriment. Our reaction fast is not going to result necessarily in peace. So we do need to slow it down.

Cherie Morris (04:26)
And it's interesting that you mentioned the kids because we're always role modeling to them. So if they watch us in these situations of conflict, always bring a heightened perspective. Kids do what we do, not what we say. And so that becomes their learned understanding of how to respond or rather react in situations where they may face conflict, have nothing to do with the family system.

Sol (04:31)
Hmm.

Cherie Morris (04:49)
don't mean that to sound burdensome, but the reality is we are role models for our kids. And the more we take care of ourselves, that's my main thrust, the better we can help them understand and take care of themselves.

Sol (05:01)
I know a lot of our listeners see themselves as the cycle breakers. That they have done a lot of work on themselves. They're exiting out of a relationship that was not healthy for them. And now they have this opportunity to show their kids something new and different that hopefully their kids will take on into the relationships they have down the road.

Cherie Morris (05:20)
It's interesting to note that you may be a cycle breaker. I feel like listening to this podcast, you'd have many listeners that are. And the struggle can sometimes be for all of us if we have a co-parent who is not a cycle breaker. That's the most generous term. Let's call it not a cycle breaker. And what I find is that sometimes is the heart of the work I do with my individual and even couples clients. If someone is not willing to shift what they do, it doesn't mean that we need to be reactive.

We still can be responsive. We're not taking on the burden that they may be trying to hand us.

Sol (05:54)
Well, that sounds really interesting to me to hear that you work with couples where maybe one side is like you said, less of a cycle breaker, and maybe more entrenched. I'd love to dive into that a little bit more. How do you approach situations like Is it hopeless? Or are there ways to find common ground and peace?

Cherie Morris (06:15)
With my legal background, I make sure that I never diagnose anyone. So you're not going to hear all those personality disorder words from me. But certainly we encounter people in our lives and even in divorce who may have intractable personality disorders. Most people are interested in a shift. When we know better, we do better. And to answer your question directly, I absolutely encounter

who don't understand that they're a part of what's going on in the system. And in that case, my practice is always to do a deeper dive with each person individually first so I understand the system. We create what I call an agenda for success so we'll come together and interact in how we're going to behave with each other. Maybe we're not even feeling it yet, which is why, for example, when you talk about your co-parenting app, sometimes

the feeling follows the behavior. So if we can behave in line with better expectations and practices we know are good for our kids, eventually we might feel it. But even if we don't, even when I have, you know, half of a couple's client who isn't shifting or not, shall we say, taking responsibility for themselves, they may still understand that behaving in a particular way is better for them. So even if it's a self-centered response, my practice,

in dealing with difficult people is to help them understand that better practices in family work will help them and help their children. And most people are interested in that, even if they believe their co-parent is a big problem.

Sol (07:45)
Well, and what you're describing is taking a more empowered perspective on the situation. If we are constantly feeling like the victim of a situation that cannot change, we're giving far too much power to our ex to control our experience. But you're describing that we can take that power back.

Cherie Morris (08:06)
We sure can, and I think the sooner we learn that as part of our separation, our divorce, our co-parenting for years to come later, the better off we are. And I think that's the most impactful part of this message. It's not about the other, it's about us. And we wanna take care of us, because then we're better able to take care of our kids.

Sol (08:27)
I understand that you are an expert in somatic healing and I'd like to ⁓ dive into that a little bit more ⁓ for our listeners. First of all, what is somatic healing and can you describe it for us?

Cherie Morris (08:41)
me and my practice, somatic healing is the understanding of the integration of mind and body to be the healthiest version of us that we can be.

What I do in the practice of somatic healing in a simple way, for example, is start a client meeting with some grounding exercises. For those who may not know what that is, it's simple practices of orienting to the now. So we put our feet on the ground and we look around the room, and we focus on three things in the room where we acknowledge that we are here, we are present for whatever this interaction is.

Then we come back to the meeting space, maybe still hugging our teddy bear if we need that, and we're present for that meeting. Grounding really works to keep us from making broad assumptions about the other person in the meeting room with us, from acting in ways that aren't in line maybe with goals we've set for ourselves before the meeting. So grounding, from my perspective, is one of the most important somatic practices that helps us heal that exists, and it's really simple.

Sol (09:42)
Tell us more about somatic healing and how it enters into your practice. I hear grounding definitely is a very helpful practice, but if I form a better mind-body connection that that will help me in my co-parenting experience?

Cherie Morris (09:55)
It's all about the nervous system. We started our discussion with that and the way the nervous system operates. And honestly, it's not that we always need to be in a space of calm. Sometimes we actually need to be in a state of heightened response, but that doesn't mean reactive, right? What these somatic healing practices do is teach our nervous system to regulate itself so we have the appropriate response at the appropriate time. That's how it helps us in co-parenting. So when that

message comes in from our co-parent, we can view it through the lens being grounded or using other mind-body practices that help us, that allow us to assess, is there a real threat here or is it just a message about the kids that I need to respond to? Even, by the way, if they haven't framed it in the most co-parent friendly way.

Sol (10:43)
I could even imagine setting up a rule for yourself that before you even open your co-parenting app, whether it be Our Family Wizard or BestInterest, that you ground yourself so that you're prepared for whatever you might encounter in there.

Cherie Morris (10:56)
I try to insist, but unfortunately I don't have a magic wand to wave with my clients. And that's the part of this practice that I really want understanding about. I'm imperfect, right? We all are imperfect, so we're all doing the best we can. But if we have the tools and we know what those practices are, we may use them most of the time. And that really helps the energy we bring to co-parenting, but also in a larger sense to the rest of our lives.

Sol (11:22)
Let's just take this scenario. What if I am looking at this really challenging email, maybe it's a threat to take me to court or something like that. I feel my heart rate rising and I feel kind of shaky and what can I do at that point to get back in center?

Cherie Morris (11:39)
asking about a moment where we may not be thinking clearly and so I really like to, as they say, keep it simple. The practice I think that is most effective when things feel heightened is just focusing on the breath. So bring it right back to the breath. If you can put your feet on the floor even better if you can put one hand over your heart and one on your belly as you self-regulate the it helps us understand

is that our breath in those moments may be very jagged and that we're not bringing the best insight to those moments yet. So something simple like focusing on the breath, calming the breath, holding yourself, which is what the practice of having one hand on the heart and one on the belly does, helps our nervous system calm itself and bring us to the right response level.

There's

so much more we could do. We could go on all day about them. But I think making people curious about them is the first step.

Sol (12:34)
Yeah, totally. One of the goals that we all have in this situation is helping our kids also navigate what can be a really challenging situation. Having two homes, even just navigating, did I bring my homework or not? Right. ⁓ Do I have this stuffed animal that I need to go to sleep?

Cherie Morris (12:51)
Yes.

Sol (12:54)
How can we help transfer some of that knowledge to our kids?

Cherie Morris (12:58)
I think one of the most important things we do as adults is show our kids how we treat ourselves and how we treat them in moments of heightened feeling. And by taking care of ourselves, it helps us do better in those moments with the kids. Because kids, boy, don't we know, they can help us be reactive as well. But the more we practice what we preach and take care of ourselves, they see that wait,

mom needs a break. I have said to my kids, I'm going to take a minute. Now they may tell you I didn't say it often enough, but in general, I tried to make that a point so that they understand I'm allowed to take a pause just as if they then say to me, I need a minute before I can answer that mom. I really honor that. So these practices help us not only certainly with the co-parent, but role model to our children that they are allowed to take care of themselves in heightened moments.

Sol (13:51)
Yeah, absolutely. What you're describing is you're creating emotional safety for them as well, that they know that if they need to take a break, you're not going to push them into an answer or taking action.

Cherie Morris (14:02)
I love that use of emotional safety there, Sol. It's really helpful and that's exactly what we're doing. What it allows them to do is create emotional safety for themselves even when they're not with us. So let's say you have that difficult co-parent who may not honor the same practices that you do. It allows them to teach your co-parent by their own self-advocacy that they are allowed to take those moments. People

treat us the way we teach them to treat us, so we're helping them navigate that, we hope, with the most cooperative co-parent. But if not, then with someone who may be more difficult. And what better way to do that than to teach them the skills we've learned ourselves.

Sol (14:40)
As a co-parent myself, I know how difficult communication can be. That's why I created Best Interest, the co-parenting app that uses advanced AI technology to automatically filter out all negativity, promoting positive communication and helping you create a healthier environment for your family. Try it now and get with code Beyond10. Link in the show notes.

Sol AI (15:02)
And now, back to the show.

Sol (15:04)
I know a lot of our listeners have struggled or have the experience of having a really challenging exchange maybe with the kids. To dial into that example, if I walk away from an exchange feeling very dysregulated I'm with my child, what's a regulating response versus a more reactive one?

Cherie Morris (15:24)
One of the things we can do and if we have our child with us certainly is to show them that we're going to take a moment for ourselves. So obviously we talked about that practice. I'm going to take a pause or, hey, I know you want to go here. I'm going to sit down on this bench and just take a minute to take care of myself. I'm going to sit in the car and wait while you do that thing. So really, again, we're not always at our best in these moments. So keep it simple. Make it about taking a pause or taking a break.

And that shows the kids that even if you didn't like what was said or how the transition went, that you're able to take care of yourself in those moments. I also really like, if it's appropriate, "hey, how are you feeling?" Find out from your kids how they're doing and validate that emotion. You don't have to fix it. And this is a mistake all of us make, over time is "you're sad, let me take care of that." It's not really about that Sol, in my experience. It's "how are you feeling?" "I'm sad," "I hear that."

"Can you describe more richly why you might be feeling" sad? And by the way, that's not an opportunity to say "that's true because my co-parent and your other parent did something really bad," right? It's more, as tempting as it may be, I think that's an opportunity to say, "I'm feeling sad or angry. And maybe we can figure out together what we can do to feel better right now." Instead of making it again in relation to the other person, we're taking care of ourselves and

our kids need us to take care of them and that's okay. But it's more about validating their emotion rather than solving their problem.

Sol (16:51)
That's a really fine line, isn't it, of how do I support my kid and their big feelings maybe about an interaction or even about the other parent without alienating, without causing loyalty conflicts.

Cherie Morris (17:05)
And I think the key is not to make it about what the other co-parent did. So even if your child says, "I'm really mad at dad for talking to you that way," that's a really clear example. I'm feeling sad and I hear that you're mad about that. And what do you think it would do? What would make you feel better? Well, it make me feel better to go give dad a punch in the face. Let's imagine the most extreme example. And I think our job is to actually help them understand that's not a great response.

"Hey, we're taking care of your feeling." And I think maybe sitting here together for a moment, if they're the right age and young enough, still willing to hold your hand, put your arm around their shoulder, spending time in that emotion together and seeing if then they have a response, "how are you feeling now?" "A little better." And not even in that moment addressing the substance of their concern because it lets everybody let go of those threads a little. by the way, this is not to say that sometimes

co-parents are really difficult and maybe they need particular boundaries as they get older with a co-parent who behaves inappropriately. But again, by teaching them to live in that moment in their emotion, they're better served and will do better with that adult much later.

Sol (18:15)
Yeah, that's such a great point. you're describing, helping separate out the relationship that you have with your children, with the relationship they have with their other parent, and not creating those entanglements. Living in relation to the other. How does somatic work play into that and help them create

emotional independence for themselves?

Cherie Morris (18:38)
I think the somatic work can help because it keeps us in constant connection with how our body feels when big feelings happen. Our mind always has one response. Our mind is always thinking and perhaps I might say overthinking a response and is often very reactive. But if we notice, for example, that we've probably all had it, that racing feeling in our body.

That's a real signal that maybe we need to slow it down, bringing us back to that slow it down before we respond. The somatic practice helps us really integrate mind and body, pay attention to mind and body so that we have a better response in these situations. And there's so many of these practices, but it's what can you

take and use in these heightened moments especially that matter. So keep it simple.

Sol (19:26)
Can you tell us a bit about when we're interacting in a high conflict situation, oftentimes we struggle with setting boundaries with the co-parent. Do you have any advice for us on how to approach boundaries?

Cherie Morris (19:39)
it's really important, that we understand boundaries are what we decide we're going to allow, not what someone else does. So in other words, we have to set that boundary and then follow it. And that means if we are not going to look at a text or email until a particular time of day, short of urgency, which is, in my view, someone on fire or a missed pickup. Those are the two emergencies with kids.

We need to understand that we're allowed to say, I will not respond to this until a particular time and then adhere to that boundary. Again, in line with that idea that people treat us as we allow. So if we are reactive, if we do look at a text that just says something not nice to us and respond in kind, then we're teaching that person that by treating us that way, they're gonna get from us what they want, which is a reaction.

I talk about this as if it's really easy to get a text that says something terrible. It's not, it makes us feel bad, it's awful, it's wrong, and no good. It doesn't mean they will ever stop, by the way, but we have a choice in how we put a boundary around it, which is to say not reacting and maybe never responding.

Sol (20:46)
Yeah, that's for sure the key, learning how to get to a place where we set boundaries even for ourselves on how often we check the co-parenting app for messages. I think that it's perhaps a very relatable experience of, it's almost like we're addicted to the struggle sometimes, the power struggle.

Cherie Morris (21:07)
You said two things that really resonate with me and I talk a lot about my clients with, which is the addiction to the drama and the power struggle. These are really impactful things that happen in separation and divorce because we're not operating in a vacuum. We've got the real world intruding. Our friends and family want to know who's right and who's wrong and why this all fell apart, which,

as we know, unless you've been in someone else's marriage, and except for me, very few people are. I, of course, am joking, but I get to hear a lot of what goes on in people's marriages. So my point is that you have to understand that only you can control what's gonna happen. By taking care of what's happening in the best way you can, we're gonna do better going forward. So setting these boundaries,

standing down sometimes from the power struggle, which is to say, you play a role by being reactive, because what's happening is you're saying, no, you're not right, I'm right. And sometimes it's not about right at all, it's about engagement. So I think the hardest thing we do is not become addicted to the drama, because it's a great diversion, and then also not engage in the power struggle in a way that doesn't serve us.

It's a lifetime practice, I like to say, but by being aware of the power struggle, it helps us begin the journey of recovery.

Sol (22:25)
I mean, I think that there were stages along the way in my own journey of that that may have been a triggering thing to addicted to the drama." I could just hear my former self saying, "what are you talking about? I'm a victim."

Cherie Morris (22:41)
And aren't we all

both things and in various moments of our separation and divorce and I really want to emphasize that because I don't want people to feel shame or feel accused in this practices. The more we're able to acknowledge that we are participants in the drama, we've all been a victim, we've all been the perpetrator in some fashion probably that if we can take responsibility for our role is the point.

⁓ That we're imperfect humans, then we can use tools to do better for us. And I think that's the most important thing here. We are better off not engaging in this power struggle. We are better off not getting into the heightened sense of drama. As good as it may feel in the moment, we get that shot of adrenaline for getting one in. It's in the long run really bad for our bodies, for our nervous system, and for our kids, as we've discussed.

Sol (23:35)
Yeah, yeah. So before we get into our final closing takeaway, I like to do a thing we call the lightning round, which is fill in the blank style. So I'm going to read off some sentences and you don't have to go so fast, but just fill in the blank. And if you'd like to add more, let's do that. So you Okay. great.

Cherie Morris (23:57)
I'm ready, I think I'm ready, Sol.

Sol (24:00)
Peace starts when...

Cherie Morris (24:02)
We regulate ourselves.

Sol (24:03)
Yeah, because when we're not regulated, we're...

We're engaging with the... Yeah.

Cherie Morris (24:07)
power struggle.

Sol (24:09)
The biggest lie high conflict parents are sold is...

Cherie Morris (24:14)
that the legal system will solve their problems.

Sol (24:17)
My God. Yeah. Can you tell us more about that as a former attorney?

Cherie Morris (24:20)
Look, every lawyer is not high conflict nor do they encourage clients to be high conflict. But every time you get to bill, you know, a quarter of an hour to a client, it's better for your business. So if you think taking every issue to your lawyer will solve the problem, it's going to cost you a lot. But also,

the courts do not want to hear, the judge does not want to hear that you didn't like how the transition went or that the transition time doesn't serve the best interest of the child. Things may be important. I'm not suggesting they're not, but they're not things the court can do a lot about and courts don't like things that they can't just do something with a broad brush. So I think it's really important that we understand we're better served by deescalating the system in the ways we talk about, with your BestInterest app, with

restraint in our own co-parenting will serve us much better than the legal system. And yes, there are people who will say, "go to your lawyer and know your rights." And I'm a believer that we have to know in separation and divorce what our individual rights are, certainly so that we don't later resent the deal we made. But that's very different than creating a high conflict dynamic for which you run to your lawyer

about a problem, you're paying them, and they can't solve the problem anyway.

Sol (25:35)
Speaking to your own transition, Cherie, going first to a coach who is experienced in this whole world and can help you navigate the system, knowing when to go to your attorney. Your attorney can be a really valuable tool, right? But it's not a tool that's always the best tool to employ for everything, especially not

emotional regulation or getting help in that arena, so

Cherie Morris (26:01)
It's true. And

I would say the best lawyers I know in this field, yes, certainly support coaching, first of all. think they would say, "I sometimes can't even help my client make a decision because they're so escalated, so dysregulated. So by getting to a place through coaching where you can take care of yourself enough to be calm enough, deescalated enough to understand what your lawyer is asking of you is a real gift.

And so I find that when the legal system works well, it's with tools like coaching and therapy and good financial neutrals.

Sol (26:35)
Yeah, and just to take that one step further too, from my experience, the legal system tends to deal a lot in fear and we can experience so much fear navigating that and having a coach that can help ground us and help us understand, that's not something you need to actually be afraid of, can really be helpful.

Cherie Morris (26:55)
think people who have experienced the work of coaching and other deescalating people in their lives benefit and understand the benefits. So dip a toe in and see if it's right for you but I think the big takeaway from my perspective is understanding we all play a role in this process and understanding that and taking responsibility for what we can do to be part of the solution makes a big difference.

Sol (27:19)
Okay, moving back to our lightning round. A dysregulated nervous system feels like...

Cherie Morris (27:24)
well for me I can tell you it feels like panic. It feels like racing. It feels like I'm out of control and I want to do something to show I'm in control.

Sol (27:33)
That's interesting. Yeah, and I imagine that for each person, it's maybe a little bit different.

Cherie Morris (27:39)
Absolutely. I was naming my experience for sure there, Sol, and I think some people, for example, shut down altogether, which is another state of nervous system dysregulation. And that can be many people's goal, too, taking to your bed and not being able to get up for a period of time. So depending on whether you're prone to anxiety, depression, or something in between, you may have pieces of all of it. I think the key is to know

what that looks like for you so that you can take steps in those heightened moments or even moments where you're not acting at all, that you're finding yourself unable to act, that you can take steps to be a better version of you as needed in that moment.

Sol (28:18)
As you said earlier, the first step is awareness, right?

Cherie Morris (28:21)
Yes,

I like that you're naming that because it's not so obvious. It's okay to not know and understand it and to now pay attention. So you don't even have to be ready to do something about it. Notice how it comes up for you.

Sol (28:35)
Okay, next question. Your body's most powerful signal is...

Cherie Morris (28:39)
I think your body's most powerful signal is what your body is telling your brain when you're feeling an emotion. So in other words, pay attention to what your brain is saying and your body is doing. That combination of mind and body gives a pretty full picture of what's going on.

Sol (28:58)
Mm hmm. Yeah, and just to say too, in my own experience, guess what, maybe 10 years ago, I had no awareness of my body or feelings in my body. And it was working with my own therapist for the first time that helped me even get to that place where I could answer what's going on inside my body. I remember when that first question was asked of me by my therapist, it's like, what do you mean?

Cherie Morris (29:23)
That's

actually beautifully we don't know what we don't know? It's true also that particular physical ailments often manifest when you have a particular psychological complaint. And once you have that awareness, you can understand that that's why your shoulders and neck and head are always hurting a particular way. Whatever that thing is. And then you can start to take steps to change that for you.

Sol (29:24)
I'm only up here.

Yeah.

That's great. Letting go of control really means...

Cherie Morris (29:50)
Recognizing that you never had it in the first place. I still don't want to admit that, so do we have to talk about it more?

Sol (29:57)
No one does.

Cherie Morris (29:57)
But it's beautiful, right?

It's beautiful to let it go and to see what the world has to offer when you don't think you're actually in charge of the whole universe, even if, of course, not consciously, do we think that.

Sol (30:08)
What a insight to strive for in our own lives to realize that we don't have really any control. It's good letting go.

Cherie Morris (30:16)
It's

good to let go and I continue to work on that practice every single day.

Sol (30:20)
The opposite of reactivity is

Cherie Morris (30:23)
Responsiveness, which is to say it doesn't mean you never say or do anything. It's gathering yourself together so that you have instead of a response that probably doesn't serve you or anyone else, a response that does.

Sol (30:39)
Yeah, it's well considered action. Yeah, I know I loved your That helped me lead to that insight. That's good. Your child doesn't need you to be perfect. They need you to be....

Cherie Morris (30:41)
Love it! Better answer! You have a better answer!

responsive, allowing them the emotional validation so that they feel emotionally safe. And they need you to be able to repair and acknowledge your mistakes. A really hard thing to do sometimes.

Sol (31:07)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And when I hear you say responsive, I'm thinking of of attuning to our kids, being present with what's going on for them.

Cherie Morris (31:12)
Yes!

Even if it's not the same for us. Acknowledging that that's what they're feeling and that also, and as a part of attunement, is the validation piece. "I hear that you're saying that and that's okay." Emotions are always okay. What we do with it may not be, but giving them that insight that what they're feeling is validated. So attunement is a great word for that.

Sol (31:16)
Mm-hmm.

The most underrated tool for de-escalation is...

Cherie Morris (31:42)
breathing. Because it's simple, we all are doing it anyway. But if we notice our breath when we feel escalated, you'll notice it's usually not as though we're in a yoga class in Shavasana. So if we notice that, the first thing we can do is, just let it go. Take a deep breath. That alone

is the simplest and easiest tool that we'll always carry with us.

Sol (32:04)
Mm-hmm. I've really appreciated hearing all of these insights from you. I'd love to talk with that listener who is just really struggling right now and trapped in some reactivity and

feeling out of balance and feeling attacked. What is a good step that they could take today that would allow them to feel more empowered?

Cherie Morris (32:27)
I think the very first thing we can do, again in line with the idea that we never control other people, it can feel very out of control when we're under attack, is to do something to take care of ourselves. So do something for your body that takes care of your mind. And I may sound like a broken record at this point, but if a listener is helped along the path of some somatic practice, sometimes just taking a walk with a friend is enough,

or moving the body in a way that speaks to them. I think it has been for a long time underrated and maybe the most impactful thing we can do is moving the body to take care of the mind.

Sol (33:03)
I really appreciate that insight. It's from my own experience, getting outside is such a healing thing. It's so simple. And yet, I find myself oftentimes forgetting it and staying indoors. But the moment I step outside and go for a walk, oftentimes I feel a heck of a lot better.

Cherie Morris (33:25)
I really just want to plug a practice, since you named it, which is going outside. If you have any opportunity to start the day, you know, in the Pacific Northwest, we don't always have sunshine early in the morning. But getting out as the sun is rising, if that's possible, and doing a little bit of a walk or a hike, it changes the whole day. That brings the two things we're talking about together, and whatever time of day you can do it,

getting that fresh air in and that body moving changes the trajectory of at least that day and sometimes much more.

Sol (33:56)
Yeah.

I could imagine a former version of myself looking at that and saying, that's just that's not the priority. But yet going outside, taking that break, doing those deep breaths, doing these practices is a bit like eating good food. It helps prepare you

to perform better and to make better decisions and be less reactive.

Cherie Morris (34:16)
And don't forget, by the way, that dark chocolate is good for you. Do things that are fun that are also good for you.

Sol (34:19)
Yes.

I started every day with a cup of hot cacao. So yeah, I relate.

Cherie Morris (34:27)
Look at you, you decadent man, I love it.

beautiful. Well, you're doing the right thing.

Sol (34:32)
Thank you. All right, Cherie, for listeners who would love to connect with you and find out more about your work, where can they find you?

Cherie Morris (34:40)
The best way to find all things Cherie Morris is at DearDivorceCoach.com and I have lots of material there that they can read and understand whether they're interested in coaching or not. It's a great resource for co-parents. And if they'd like to meet me, I always do a 20-minute discovery Zoom. So come see me, talk to me, we'll talk about where you are, the work I do and figure out if there's a good fit.

Sol (35:05)
Great, well we'll put all those links in the show notes. And Cherie, thanks so much for being on with us today. It's been such a pleasure.

Cherie Morris (35:12)
you. It's my privilege to be here.

Sol (35:15)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (35:33)
The commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.