Sol (00:01)
Welcome to Coparenting Beyond Conflict. I'm your host, Sol, founder of the BestInterest app for co-parents. At BestInterest and on this podcast, my goal is to help you find peace. Today, I'm joined by Amy Ballantyne, a TEDx speaker, executive life coach, and the host of the podcast, Power to the People Pleasers. I'm excited for this conversation because Amy specializes in helping people like us break free from that unconscious desire to say yes when we really mean no.

If that resonates, then this episode is for you. If it doesn't, well, I respect your no. Let's dive in.

Sol (00:34)
Hi Amy, welcome to the podcast. It's so good having you here today.

Amy Ballantyne (00:37)
Well, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Sol (00:40)
How are we finding you today? What's been the highlight of your week so far?

Amy Ballantyne (00:44)
The highlight of my week so far is a company has hired me to support 21 of their leaders. So I've been busy onboarding a number of new coaching clients.

Sol (00:54)
So you are an executive coach and really focused on personal and professional development. When did you decide to get into this line of work? What's been your journey so far?

Amy Ballantyne (01:04)
I knew that I always wanted to help people. The earlier part of my journey was helping people in their well-being and I still do that in many ways, knowing that the stress in our work life impacts our home life and the stress in our home life impacts our work life and this is all related to our well-being so, I coach the whole person.

And got started in this 17 years ago, I've been individuals and I really enjoy those light bulb moments when I ask a question that causes them to go inward, to take a pause and perhaps consider something differently.

Sol (01:43)
Now I understand too that you have a podcast and on your podcast I know one of the big topics you focus in on is people getting stuck in external validation. I'm curious, when you speak to co-parents how does this approval trap affect their ability to show up in a good way in that relationship?

Amy Ballantyne (02:00)
Well, the external validation, if we go way back to before they were parents, both of these individuals are humans, they're their own selves, and they have early conditioning that they're faced with. The early conditioning of seeking approval, being not people pleaser, having someone tell them that they did a good job.

In the relationship that they are in or no longer together in, but they're still in a relationship, obviously, because they're supporting children as co-parents, this

absolutely makes a difference in the way that they communicate with each other, how they show up. I call it some of the baggage that they're bringing to each of the conversations, the lenses that they're viewing each conversation dialogue through.

Sol (02:48)
Yeah, that makes sense that in our childhood, we all experienced certain interactions with our parents and caregivers, and that that informs the lens in which we view interactions with our kids, our co-parent, other people in our community.

Amy Ballantyne (03:03)
Yeah, and good, bad, or wrong, those interactions happened.

Sol (03:09)
Mm-hmm.

Amy Ballantyne (03:09)
So one of the first things is each individual having the desire and willingness to become more self-aware.

That's where the most growth can happen and the opportunity for less conflict and better communication can happen, when both parties are becoming more self-aware, are open to looking at, how am I saying that? How did I receive what that other co-parent just said? Am I receiving it from a place of non-judgment? Am I receiving that communication from a place of

wanting approval, wanting validation, right? There's many different layers in the communication.

Sol (03:49)
I can really relate to this idea of becoming more aware and there are layers here. I identify for sure as a people pleaser in recovery. Growing up, I was a nice kid and a nice guy and that led to behaviors that may have not been the best. Can you tell us more about the root of people pleasing and what maybe

we're unconsciously thinking?

Amy Ballantyne (04:15)
Yeah, you know, when we look at the earlier route of people pleasing, you've already brought it up. Those early in childhood tend to be where the roots come from. So the need to have that approval of your parents or get that validation that you were doing enough, being enough, or that you were being quiet or being, as you said, being the

good boy growing up. So this is, in my opinion, a learned behavior that starts very, very young. Unless individuals become more aware of this being a tendency and actively focus on thinking in a different way and speaking and showing up in a different way, they continue on in that journey.

Sol (05:01)
Most of our listeners, of course, have heard the term people pleaser and they may also identify with people pleasing. What is one of the biggest misunderstandings about what it's like being a people pleaser?

Amy Ballantyne (05:11)
That you are a pushover, that you have no backbone, that you have no needs of your own.

Sol (05:21)
That's

a story we're telling ourselves sometimes.

Amy Ballantyne (05:23)
Yeah,

and because I was having a conversation with a client just a moment ago, we've conditioned the people around us that this is the way we "always" behave. So when we behave differently from what our always is, such as, when we're aiming to step out of people pleasing and broaden ourself and and our behaviors,

those in our life might look at us like we're nuts because we haven't acted in this way before. So I certainly can tell you from my own experience in my own home, as I've really embraced recovering from being a people pleaser and when my husband says, "will you do this thing?" And I say, "no," I know that it's very strange for him.

I know that and it's strange for me too as the recovering people pleaser because the past me would just say yes all the time even though it wasn't my best interest to say yes. it It didn't fit with whether I had time to do the thing he was asking for, I would just bend over and do whatever had to be done and now I'm saying you know what, on the weekend I said no to something and I was like this is weird. ⁓

Sol (06:33)
Yeah, that transition from people pleasing to being more aware and then actually setting the boundaries, saying the no's. Gosh, that's a journey.

Amy Ballantyne (06:39)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Ha ha. Yes, it is.

Sol (06:44)
I can just hear this voice in my head "don't say that no, they're gonna think you're mean."

Amy Ballantyne (06:50)
Mm-hmm. I said no, I happen to be leaving the house to go for a walk after I said the no, I was still self-coaching as I was walking down the road going can figure it out. It's okay." You know, this is a journey. It's a process, like I had to self-soothe myself through this new step.

Sol (07:12)
I'm hearing a little IFS in that.

Amy Ballantyne (07:14)
Absolutely, absolutely. My conditioned response was as a people pleaser. So I'm telling the little Amy, "it's all good. We're okay. There's nothing wrong here. You're not mean. This is absolutely acceptable."

Sol (07:26)
Now, going back to this root, I'm imagining that it has something to do with the desire to avoid conflict. Is that usually what it's rooted in or?

Amy Ballantyne (07:35)
There is a component ⁓ for some people to avoid conflict, for sure. I wouldn't say it's always about conflict, but for some people, definitely.

Sol (07:41)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So in that situation, I might be agreeing with my co-parent to avoid going to court or avoid a fight, or I know that fight's just lurking around that boundary that I might set.

Amy Ballantyne (07:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's so much, it's so context dependent. Don't you think so? In some instances when we're talking about co-parenting and avoiding the argument and avoiding the fight, if we chunk way up to finding agreement in a situation for the big picture thinking,

the big picture of the well-being of the children as an example. Are there times where you might give in and it might be called people pleasing? Certainly. Is that okay? Certainly. Just because I have a podcast called Power to the People Pleasers and people come on there going, "people pleasing isn't always bad." I agree.

It's not always bad. It's also not always a great thing to do. So there's context here as well.

Sol (08:43)
Are there any long-term benefits to learning how to set boundaries versus staying in that people-pleasing, avoiding conflict mode?

Amy Ballantyne (08:52)
I think there are absolutely long-term benefits to having boundaries.

Your own well-being being one of those things. you're always saying yes just because that's what you know how to do, I'm generalizing, but you're putting your own needs so far to the bottom of the list.

I've seen many clients then feel a tremendous amount of regret and frustration and overwhelm and discontent because of not having those boundaries. If they had

taken this step to say the uncomfortable thing, even though it's going to be uncomfortable, to put the boundary, the barrier in place, in the long run, it would make a very big difference.

Sol (09:33)
Can you help us understand a bit of this, what sounds like a very fine line between healthy compromise and self abandonment?

Amy Ballantyne (09:41)
Yeah, the healthy compromise. If both parties can truly come to a place of agreement for chunking out to the bigger picture, come to that agreement...

I'm quite a kinesthetic person. I can feel it in my body when I'm aligned with a decision. Other people would use different words to describe alignment. For me, it's a feeling in the body. So I would say for other people who are kinesthetic, they would feel that there's alignment there, that there's not things that are unsaid, there's not a feeling of incongruency or

misalignment, I guess. And if they can get to that place,

that's a really powerful place to make decisions from.

Sol (10:22)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I can relate to that idea of going within. The body is such a wise vehicle. The more we learn how to listen to it, it can teach us where that boundary is, who we are, what we stand for, and the times when just giving in, keeping the peace is actually the best.

Amy Ballantyne (10:28)
Yeah.

I wonder, in some of these times when you're saying like giving in, keeping the peace.

Often where the big challenge and the big conflict and the disagreement comes is way down in the details of things. It's way down in the nitty gritty of the arguments, like the down in the details. And if we can move further up into the big picture thinking, it's not that the details aren't there. The individuals are looking

 not beyond the details, but they become less important because what's most important is that higher piece of agreement around the children usually.

Sol (11:13)
Yeah, can you give us some examples of what you're referring to there? What would that look like?

Amy Ballantyne (11:16)
Like,

I had a client who, in the divorce phase, they're fighting about the vacation home and the air miles and Saturday or Sunday. If the two co-parents can get to a higher level of thinking of

what's in the best interest for the child to have the least

dysfunction, the least

challenge within their own Then they're thinking about the bigger picture beyond just the nitty gritty details of, okay, well, you got Saturday, I want Sunday.

I'm giving into this hour versus this day. If they're taking it from the level of the child, the big picture thinking, that's usually where agreement can happen even easier and less conflict exists.

Sol (12:04)
Now we're speaking more of a situation where the co-parents might be in some disagreement, but they're able to come together and be interested in the child's experience and the best interests of the kids. That's not always the case for a lot of our listeners. And they might identify with their ex being a narcissist or having some sort of a coercive controlling type

Amy Ballantyne (12:15)
Yes.

Sol (12:27)
or strategy. So in those sorts of situations, what is the best scenario? How can we get our challenging co-parent on the same page?

Amy Ballantyne (12:35)
For these individuals,

it's whether or not this particular group of co-parents can communicate at all. I'm going to make the assumption that they at least can have a conversation without significant argument. If they can have a conversation,

the co-parent who is worried about the narcissist, to have them dialogue

what their goals are, what their aims and hopes are. It's about actually saying some of the things they haven't been saying. It's about digging into the dialogue a little bit more. If there's not truthfulness though,

I'm not sure what to tell you here.

Sol (13:16)
That makes sense. My answer to that might be learning how to set better boundaries. Sometimes when we're in situations like this where we've left someone that wasn't very good at respecting our boundaries, we probably did grow up as people pleasing. And we know that relationships tend to form in those ways where someone who doesn't respect boundaries tends to

prefer to be in relationship with someone who is willingly giving away their boundaries and not setting them. So in these situations, when we've created a separation, we've divorced, how can we start approaching boundaries in a new way so that we can create a new life for ourselves?

Amy Ballantyne (13:56)
In this scenario would be looking for the win-win for both parties. So the small steps of, this is a win for me, this boundary be a win for you? If I take the kids for these two hours, would that allow for you to have this? Looking for the win-win

for both parties, not just solely seeking it for yourself.

Start by reflecting what are the needs that you have? What are the lines that you want to draw? Be very clear for yourself and then know if you were to put them in a hierarchy, which one is the most important one that you wanna go after first, knowing that in some of these scenarios,

it's going to be a one at a time kind of thing as you grow and learn how you're going to be a co-parent together, how this relationship is going to grow and transform and hopefully strengthen and improve over time versus get worse, right? But with the boundary piece, you having your own clarity first, both co-parents being clear, what would their number one be? And then looking for that win-win for both sides and the kids.

Sol (15:03)
I like this idea of writing down your non-negotiables before these challenging conversations because I think we can all relate to this idea of once you get in the conversation, it's so easy to go to those unconscious patterns of people pleasing.

Amy Ballantyne (15:18)
Yeah, and even practicing with a trusted friend or a what you want to say before you walk in that room. So you've given it a go a few times.

Sol (15:29)
In terms of an example of a boundary crossing event that might occur, let's say the co-parent comes in with a last-minute request demanding that a day be traded and it just doesn't really work for us. How can we say no without escalating?

Amy Ballantyne (15:47)
There's a concept called the agreement frame that can help diffuse a situation. So you could say, "I agree that this is a challenging situation that you face. You're now asking me to change my day. I respect that you are looking for me to change this, and I appreciate that,

in your asking, you're looking for my help, unfortunately, it's going to be a no." Depending on the relationship, the situation, you would say these are the reasons why, or no is a complete answer, despite the discomfort the people pleaser might feel and the discomfort the co-parent who's asking on the other end might feel.

Will that create conflict? Possibly.

Sol (16:31)
Yeah, it's so easy to go down that rabbit hole of trying to explain ourselves, isn't it?

Amy Ballantyne (16:36)
That's why I said no is a complete sentence. Despite the pattern of wanting to give all the reasons why you can't or won't change the mind or the date, it may not be helpful to give all those reasons why.

Despite the people pleaser wanting to be like, "but this is why, understand my side."

Sol (16:56)
doesn't always work out that way.

Amy Ballantyne (16:58)
Yeah.

Sol (16:58)
Shifting our focus to the kids and their experience. What does a child learn emotionally when they are witnessing their parent often or all the time giving in to the other?

Amy Ballantyne (17:09)
They are, they're witnessing a pattern and it's likely forming their own patterns.

Many of our patterns were formed from the moments of our  early age and our parents from their early age, right? So we're continuing the cycle.

Sol (17:25)
Now, how about a parent-to-child interaction? Same question. This must be coming up in those relationships as well.

Amy Ballantyne (17:32)
Yeah.

There's a couple of different situations that happen. The child who always gets everything they want, then has the learning, "I get everything I want."

There's also a possibility that then maybe they grow up to seek individual's command and companionship with people pleasers because then they'll get everything they want.

Sol (17:52)
It's interesting to dive into that a little bit. In this scenario where you're dealing with a co-parent that perhaps is more on the side of controlling than collaboration, you end up having to learn how to set really strong boundaries. But in a way, you don't really want to map that same type of style on your kids.

So how do you navigate that or is that a complex situation for kids to figure out?

Amy Ballantyne (18:16)
Before the age of seven is the imprint phase, right? That's when the kids are really picking up through action. They're not at a time when you can necessarily reason with them. However, I believe in planting the seeds as early as possible to inform where necessary, on

'this is why I made this choice. This is why mummy is making this choice to do it this way.' So there's some clarity being provided. Also, I'm a big fan of teaching as early as we can that we are humans too and we are learning and we are making mistakes and everyone makes mistakes and that's okay.

We all were making choices and we're aiming to do our very best in each of these interactions. And if possible, both co-parents are saying those same kinds of things about each other to the kids. We all make mistakes, we're all trying our best, we're doing the best we can with the information that we have at the time. I mean, that's the ideal, right? Is that both co-parents are speaking about each other

with a level of kindness.

Sol (19:21)
Yeah, that's really lovely.

I'm thinking about my seven year old boy. And he is in his super demanding 'everything my way right now' phase. And it's big and bold and

is it just a matter of reminding him to say please when he demands, or how do I help him get through this?

Amy Ballantyne (19:40)
I believe that part of our role as parents is to teach the patterns, ideally the healthy ones that we want to see, such as the saying please. I decided, many years ago now, I wanted my whole family to say thank you for dinner after dinner was

done, before they got up from the table. I don't feel like that's like a really large request, But that was my decision that I was like, it would be really nice if this happened. My children were all different age ranges, one little, little, kind of preteen stage, and then of course my husband.

It was unrealistic of me to expect that I say it one time and that they would then get it. So it took some time reminding the behavior that I was hoping to see with kindness and compassion. "Please say thank you before you get up. I had to say this a few times until now I don't have to remind them at all. And now I see the behavior that I have. It's the same as if we want them to brush their teeth, Yes, it's annoying.

And if that's the behavior you want to see, reminding him to say, please, with kindness and compassion from you, and then every time you are doing an interaction, you are saying, please, that also is valuable.

Sol (20:48)
I don't know if this is a universal truth or just my own experience, but I know that when I'm interacting with my littles, it's often very easy for me to self-sacrifice and just go along with it. Even if it might hurt my body to carry them or whatever, I usually just say yes. And then afterward, I wonder, huh, was that the right thing to do or should I be modeling that I'm not into right now?

Amy Ballantyne (21:11)
I would say lean into trusting yourself.

Would it be such a bad thing for us people pleasers in those instances to to role model saying no at an earlier age? I started having the conversation with my son, especially, because he's excellent at jumping up and doing whatever I ask, which is great on one hand. And I also have said to him, "there may be times where you choose to say no,

for whatever reason, to something I've asked and that's completely okay as well." He's a young man now, he's a teenage boy. I am aiming to help not stop him from, doing his chores. However, it's also strengthening this inner knowing for him that "it is absolutely acceptable for you to say no. And there will be times and it may make me upset.

Someday when you say no to me when I ask you when I'm 70, to come shovel my driveway..." I don't know what this instance will be but planting those seeds now of, you know what no, you know it's not okay for you to jump on my back.

Sol (22:11)
Yeah, what you're also giving an opportunity for is when they do say no, that you respond in a way that is loving and generous of their no.

Amy Ballantyne (22:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we get to practice ourselves, demonstrating the behavior we want to see.

Sol (22:27)
People pleasing, how much is this about our own self-love or self-worth?

Amy Ballantyne (22:31)
Well, according to many of the experts I've had on the podcast, there's a significant link to having a low level of self-worth and self-love. And in my own experience, I would say that has absolutely been true. And the more I've learned to show myself kindness and compassion and love, the better I am at obviously having boundaries and maintaining those boundaries and make space for other people to say no,

and not have to be people pleasers as well or choose to be. They don't have to choose to be people pleasers as well.

Sol (23:01)
What's a good first step for someone who's realizing about this themselves right now and wanting to explore their own self love and self worthiness?

Amy Ballantyne (23:10)
My favorite strategy for growing in self-love and self-worth is finding a baby photo. This was a strategy that I used many years ago when I was on the beginning of my journey. And it's looking in your very own eyes and saying, "I was enough then,

and I am enough now" and wiring in strength. I believe it's a remembering because we all have seen the, many little toddlers who don't think that they're not enough. They just are. Until all of a sudden the belief comes that they're not, which we all know to not be true. However, we've all, in my opinion, forgotten,

over the period of time. That's what they're remembering.

Sol (23:51)
Hmm, yeah, that's beautiful. Amy's holding up a picture of herself as a baby. That's a really wonderful technique. When we are coming from a place of setting a boundary, but maybe lacking in some of that self-respect, how does that communication or boundary sound to others, compared to what it might sound when we're just feeling more empowered?

Amy Ballantyne (24:11)
My guess is that there's a difference in tone. There's a difference in body language. Definitely. A large portion of our communication is through body language and then the next largest is through our vocal. So it may even come across to the other person unconsciously.

Because obviously watching somebody's body language is an unconscious thing, you're not consciously looking at someone's posture and going, this must mean that they mean this or that. But there would be this unconscious feeling or sense of not believing it as much. They're not as strong with what they're saying.

If there's like an incongruence in, someone saying, yeah, "I believe in me and I want to set a boundary..."

versus, "this is the boundary I have." You can hear the posture and the change.

Sol (25:01)
Many of our listeners have been in relationships where they have felt denigrated and not respected, and now they're in co-parenting relationships where the communication isn't very respectful. What is a technique that you could prescribe for someone who's receiving this type of disrespectful communication while remaining centered in yourself and your own self-worth?

Amy Ballantyne (25:24)
One of the things that I've seen work really well for this is, number one, imagining the younger self of that human.

Aiming to listen through the lens of compassion, even though it's a very difficult situation, so that your own response can come from that place. The question is,

the only person that you control is you and how do you actually want to show up in the world? How do you want to behave? How do you want to communicate even in the face of conflict and anger and frustration? That is your opportunity. It is how you show up. So seeing that as their younger self, there's a presupposition that I really love,

people are doing the best they can with the resources they have. If you lean into that assumption that people are doing the best they can, we can lean in the direction of having more empathy and compassion,

reducing the negative energy in that space.

Sol (26:26)
Yeah, that's a really beautiful vision. For many, it probably feels very unattainable, depending on on where they're at in their co-parenting journey, how fresh their divorce is. But I love this idea of getting to a place where you can at least see your co-parent more neutrally and realize that the way they're treating you is probably

on par with or maybe even little better than how they're treating themselves. So looking and envisioning them as a child, I like that technique.

Amy Ballantyne (26:55)
Yeah. What I say in coaching often is, if these are the words that are coming out of your mouth to me, I can only imagine the words that you're saying to yourself, how bad they must be. So if both parties, came to the table with this desire to show up

as kind as possible. I know this is wishful, hopeful.

Sol (27:19)
Yeah, we like hope here. The only people that we have are ourselves, right? And being able to shift a situation that feels unmovable, you really can, just by your perspective and the steps you take.

Amy Ballantyne (27:20)
Good, good, good,

Yeah, perspective makes a big difference for sure.

Sol (27:34)
Okay now Amy, it's time for our lightning round. So in the lightning round, I'm gonna read a sentence and you'll fill in the blank. Okay, ready? The biggest lie that people pleasers believe is...

Amy Ballantyne (27:46)
They have to say yes to everything.

Sol (27:47)
Hmm, tell me more about that.

Amy Ballantyne (27:48)
The conditioning is that they have to say yes when in fact we know that that's not the truth. They are valuable whether they say yes or no. They are loved whether they say yes or no. They are good people whether they say yes or no.

Sol (28:02)
I'd like to underline that: you're still a good person even if you say no. Yeah, that's good. A healthy boundary sounds like...

Amy Ballantyne (28:09)
No, thank you.

Sol (28:10)
Yeah, strong, kind.

Amy Ballantyne (28:10)
for

You can literally just say no thank you.

Sol (28:14)
It's such a, it's almost like an unconscious thing that we want to explain why we're saying no.

Self-Respect is built by...

Amy Ballantyne (28:21)
showing yourself kindness over and over and over again.

Sol (28:25)
I like that. Yeah, my experience has been it's almost as if there's a part of me that's watching the way I treat myself and taking notes.

Amy Ballantyne (28:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. "He that. yes. Good job. That would be the inner cheerleader going, "woo-hoo, good job, woo."

Sol (28:37)
he does love himself. ⁓ "No, he's abandoning himself.

Yeah.

When your ex pushes a boundary, the first thing to do is...

Amy Ballantyne (28:48)
Take a deep breath.

Sol (28:49)
Yeah, that's really important. Slow things down.

Amy Ballantyne (28:51)
And center,

And center yourself. Who do you want to be in this moment? How do you want to show up? Is there a big picture thinking opportunity here? Are you going to dig your heels in? It's about how you want to show up.

Sol (29:02)
Your answer is having me think a bit about that response to when a breakdown happens, when a boundary is crossed. Sometimes there is a reaction to go to anger. sometimes there's even more power in just a simple no.

Amy Ballantyne (29:18)
Yes. Correct.

Sol (29:19)
Okay, peace starts when...

Amy Ballantyne (29:20)
Peace starts when people are kind,

when people are open-minded.

Sol (29:23)
The opposite of people pleasing isn't selfishness, it's...

Amy Ballantyne (29:26)
Self love.

Sol (29:27)
Your child needs to see you...

Amy Ballantyne (29:29)
show yourself kindness and compassion and admit when you're wrong, and show that you can rise up in the face of making mistakes and being both your best self and maybe not your best self, and how to move through that.

Sol (29:44)
Learning and teaching that there's a gray, that it's not always good and bad, right or wrong, that there's, "hey, I make mistakes. And that's what we all do."

Amy Ballantyne (29:47)
I know.

Yeah. Yeah. I say all the

time, "I'm growing up with you just because I'm, 20 or so years older than you. I'm still growing up with you. And I still will be when I'm 70, I'll still be growing up with them.

Sol (30:00)
My gosh, isn't that true? Yeah.

Communicate with your co-parent as if you were...

Amy Ballantyne (30:08)
their best friend.

Sol (30:09)
That's gonna be a hard one for some of our listeners to swallow.

Amy Ballantyne (30:11)
I

I know. I mean, it goes back to if they can look through the lens of kindness, that this is another human despite all the anger and if they both could get to that level, the communication would be better, the conflict would be less.

Sol (30:25)
Have you ever seen that lovely Burning Man art piece they're the two children coming together, but they're enslaved by this large cage that looks like adult humans? ⁓ I'll link that in the show notes. It's a really good visual because it maps to that experience that you're talking about that.

Amy Ballantyne (30:37)
No, I need to find that.

Sol (30:46)
If we hold our co-parents as children and ourselves as children before all this badness got in the way, actually we probably could really love one another.

Amy Ballantyne (30:53)
Yep.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

Sol (30:57)
The most overlooked emotional intelligence skill is...

Amy Ballantyne (31:01)
active listening.

Actually listening and zipping your lip and not formulating your own side of it in your head while the person's talking.

Sol (31:10)
I'll make a note of that.

Worthy is a feeling that comes from...

Amy Ballantyne (31:13)
Inner love, self-love.

Sol (31:16)
Now, Amy, for a listener that's listening right now and just really in the thick of it, struggling, maybe thinks it's too late to start setting boundaries or change the dynamic, what's one piece of advice that you would give them to shift this today?

Amy Ballantyne (31:30)
I would say it's never too late. And the action

I would invite them to take if I was coaching them is, consider how the person on the other side, the co-parent, best receives communication.

Obviously I don't know what the details of their divorce are and all the like, blah, blah, blah, right? If possible, if there's a way for communication to move to the other person in a way that they might receive it, like a written letter, for example, like written down with your hand,

to say something, if possible kind, that maybe I really liked it that you were on time to drop the kids off. Something kind doesn't have to be over the top, but something kind to highlight, you know, this is the behavior I'd like to have.

I'm focused on showing more kindness, showing up in a better way as myself. And what I really liked recently that you did was this, thank you for doing that. So showing some kind of compassion, taking the step in the direction over the bridge to put your hand out and say, I'm gonna do what I can to build that bridge.

So who do you want to be? What's the part that you can offer? Can you send out that olive branch even though you might be frustrated with the other side? Who do you want to be?

Sol (32:47)
Yeah, and in some ways too, even this idea of writing a letter, if you're not ready to send a letter of appreciation, you don't have to even send it, but just writing it is healing.

Amy Ballantyne (32:55)
Yes.

It's a first step, right?

Sol (33:02)
Amy, thanks so much for being on the podcast today. It's been such a delight to talk with you.

Amy Ballantyne (33:07)
It was my pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Sol (33:09)
For listeners who are interested in your work and would like to connect with you, how can they find you?

Amy Ballantyne (33:15)
I am on LinkedIn, @AmyBallantyne and Instagram @AmyBallantyne and I have a book called Celebrate Yourself. I highly recommend it for those people who are feeling like they need to learn how to love themselves more and come out of that dark place.

Sol (33:31)
That's great, we'll put those links in the show notes. And again, thanks for being on today, Amy.

Amy Ballantyne (33:35)
Thanks for having me.

Sol (33:37)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (33:55)
The commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.