Sol (00:02)
Welcome to Coparenting Beyond Conflict. I'm your host, Sol, founder of the BestInterest app for Coparents. I'm excited to be joined today by my co-host, producer, and life partner, Louise. In this episode, we are talking to Alicia Krasko, a stepmom coach and the host of the Stepmom Side podcast. Alicia brings a refreshingly honest voice to blended family life. The love, the resentment, the awkwardness, the ex dynamics, the in-law dynamics,

and all the invisible pressure that comes with stepping into a family story that started before you. I'm excited for this conversation because Alicia doesn't sugarcoat the stepmom role, but she also brings real hope. She reminds us that peace in a blended family doesn't come from everything being perfect. It comes from knowing your role, strengthening your partnership, setting clear expectations, and learning what you can and can't control. If you're a stepparent, dating someone

with kids, or trying to understand the blended family dynamics affecting your co-parenting relationship, this episode is for you. Let's dive in.

Sol & Louise (01:04)
Welcome, Alicia. Thanks so much for being on our podcast today.

Alicia Krasko (01:07)
Thank you for

having me. I'm excited to be here and chat with both of you about all of the things blended family stuff.

Sol & Louise (01:12)
So before we dive into it, help us get into your head space for a moment in your week. Was there a moment that you felt really peaceful or you brought more peace into your life?

Alicia Krasko (01:22)
Yeah, I was just telling you guys yesterday or what Sunday I was out like just doing yard work and everyone else was occupied. My husband had my daughter and the dog and I was just in my own little space doing whatever I wanted. I'm like, yeah, this is nice, absolutely no outside interruptions. With kids are constantly like pinging you like 'mom mom mom' or if you've got stepkids, are like 'Alicia Alicia' or whatever

it is that they call you and you're just like, Can I start one thing and finish one thing?

And I was able to actually start something and then hours later, complete it. Well, until I ran out of mulch, but I was like, this is really nice. I like this. Is that nerdy?

Sol & Louise (01:56)
I just tend to not start things when they're around because I'm like, what's the point? I'm gonna get interrupted. So I'll just wait.

I just miss productivity a little bit.

Alicia Krasko (02:03)
like never mind I just won't do it but it's literally all I can think about

Sol & Louise (02:06)
What do you like to be called? Stepmother, bonus mom, what's the proper term?

Alicia Krasko (02:11)
I prefer stepmom. and I think there's this

ideology of let's call everyone a bonus mom because they're so nice.

Sol & Louise (02:19)
Well, you never say "wicked bonus mom."

Alicia Krasko (02:21)
Who am I to decide that I'm the bonus?

Right? maybe my step kids like me and obviously it's dependent on the minute, maybe the hour, but maybe they like me, maybe they don't. I might not actually be a bonus to them. I think that something that stepmoms get hung up on is, "well, it's hurtful if my stepkids still have this picture of their parents getting back together." That's the nature of this beast, right? That's the reality here.

If that's what you grew up with, that's what you want. I'm married, and I now have a kid of my own, but if we were to split up, I'm sure my daughter would think the same thing. That's just normal. But then now you've got somebody that's coming in, and is like, "I'm a bonus." I'm like, not a bonus, I didn't even want you here in the first place. This wasn't part of the plan. I was expecting my parents to stay together forever.

So I just prefer stepmom. I know that there's a stigma that's attached to being called a stepmom or being a stepmom, but then,

to me that outweighs the stigma of being called a bonus mom. It just feels weird to me because who am I to decide that I'm the bonus?

Sol & Louise (03:12)
I'm wondering when you first entered this role, what was the biggest surprise? What was the thing that you were not expecting that kind of hit you in the face?

Alicia Krasko (03:20)
That's a really great question because I thought, how hard could it be? I love kids and they always love me. Right? And then you get into this role and then you realize wait, there are outside factors. There are outside players. There are outside dynamics. Not realizing that

they've been with all of these other people, like their parents, their extended family, their friends, all of the people their whole entire life. But then you're coming in at the middle of the story, if you will, and you're expected to love them like your own. You're expected to know all of these routines, know all of the traditions. And then there's all of these things that pop up that you're like, ooh, I didn't realize that was a bruise on my part. Sorry, guys, I just freaked out because

apparently I have some stuff over here.

I had never been married before and I have any kids, so I was like, I'm basically perfect. I'm so good. And then I realized very quickly that I actually wasn't and I didn't really like that anymore. Once we switched to that part in marriage counseling, I was like, I don't like it here anymore. We can be done anytime. And she was like, yeah, OK. It was all good as long as my husband was in the hot seat. But then once she was like, "OK, Alicia, let's talk about you." I was like, "why? I've never been married and I don't have any kids."

She was like, "let's talk about the things that you do that aren't helpful." I was like, I'm very helpful.

But I think it was just, I thought everything was going to go well. And then you get in this dynamic. right, there's like, I already talked about, there's already the stigma of being a step mom. So you've got your own feelings on what that should look like, what it shouldn't look like, what you should or shouldn't do. Then you've got like the unwritten expectations of your partner, what

they think you should or shouldn't do. And then there's a weirdness from the kids of like what they think you should or shouldn't do, right? And they don't even know you, so then you're gonna come in and try to do all the things. And then there's what their other house thinks that you should do. And then there's a societal part. And then it's like, I'm suffocating here and I don't like it. "Dear Google, how

do I get divorced? I hate this." And then here I am, like almost 15 years later and everything's fine. But I didn't realize like how

hard it would be at the beginning.

Sol & Louise (05:08)
Yeah.

Well, obviously when you enter into this role as stepmom, there's the experience that you have learning about the kids and building that life together with your partner. There's also the other side. There's the ex who doesn't see you necessarily as a stepmom, but as the new partner. And I'm curious if you can talk about that experience of having that type of impact in the family system.

Alicia Krasko (05:29)
I have like remained relatively unscathed. Looking back, there were times, you know, like I was talking about our marriage counselor was like, "okay, let's talk about you and how you're not helpful." And I was like, "I'm fine." But looking back, a lot of the things that I experienced with the ex were mostly due to my own insecurities, my own feelings about whatever I thought I could or couldn't do, what I should or shouldn't say, just not being confident in my role.

Not understanding that not everything is a five alarm fire.

I don't need to lose my shit about everything. I don't need to be like blowing up at my husband or flipping out about a last minute schedule change. That used to make me absolutely crazy. At the time, we lived really close to them and they could just come over. The kids would pop over and grab something or

we'd have to stop there and get something. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I could have just chilled out a little bit. My stepkids now are grown and flown. My stepdaughter is 25, my stepson is 22. He moved in full time at 15 because his mom and stepdad moved two and a half hours away. And she had said to me, "hey,

Sol & Louise (06:12)
I

Alicia Krasko (06:24)
since you're the one that's home all the time, can I just text you instead of like using our group chat because it's just you and I?" And I was like, "yeah, that's fine." Once I had a kid that gave me more street credibility as far as like being a mom went, which is such bullshit. I don't think that you need to have kids to

have maternal feelings or to be motherly or to show up and love kids and just pour into them.

Maybe not directly, but it was definitely implied. And there were times that it was absolutely

said to my face. But then once I had a kid, it was like, "oh, you do know what you're doing." And so it's interesting that the things that I tried as a stepmom that made me terrible and made me horrible,

like, "well, you don't understand because you're not a mom," are literally the exact same things I do with my own daughter. And people are like, "wow, you're an amazing mom." And I'm like, "really? Because 10 years ago, I remember when I was doing

this with my stepkids and you were like, 'that's so mean, you shouldn't do that.'" House expectations, some boundaries, that doesn't make me a terrible person. But then again, once I had my own daughter and I was literally doing the same thing to her, it's not because I hated my stepkids and I wanted to like make their life hell, it's like,

"Hey man, we need some structure in this house. What are we doing?" But no, everything with the ex has been fine.

Now we have a more of distant relationship just

because my stepkids are out of the house. We don't have like day-to-day communications, but yeah. I mean, we've done joint

things together, like grad parties. When my stepson graduated from the military, like we all went.

We didn't go together, but we all stayed at the same hotel. We all would go out to eat together. We'd hang out together. So it's not weird. And I know

that that's not normal, but there was a lot of growing on my part to get us to that point because we did a lot of things together when they were younger, like in middle school and high school. We would sit at games together and I'm literally trying to crawl out of my skin.

Again, that's one of those things that I didn't necessarily need to blow up about, but I definitely did. And then we stopped doing that.

Now that I've had some space to understand who I am as a stepmom, gain my confidence, figure out my role and what we're doing here, then I can let you in and not have this, I don't know, I felt kind of like a puppet, do as I say, do what we want you to do and then it's fine. But once I found my own footing, then I was like, okay, you can be around because now I'm not, not that I was intimidated, but just.

I felt really unsure, very insecure. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing in this role, but it's really freaking hard to figure it out when you're constantly around.

Sol & Louise (08:41)
I'm curious how things might have gone differently if the situation had been more high conflict.

Alicia Krasko (08:46)
I wouldn't be here.

I didn't get married until I was 29. Even then, like our situation has always been relatively good.

Sol & Louise (08:51)
When you are coaching other step moms who are in high conflict situations, how do you not just tell them, best if you just end it now, quit while you're

Alicia Krasko (09:00)
Right, yeah?

Sol & Louise (09:00)
ahead.

Alicia Krasko (09:01)
Yeah. Honestly, that comes from a lot of growth. Like I said, there were a bunch of things that I flipped out about that, honestly, it was an anthill, and I definitely made it into a mountain. I can look back and be like, oh, let's not look back. This is a little awkward. But now I'm like, oh, yeah, you know what? The last minute things really aren't that big of a deal. It feels like a massive deal when you're going through it. There's different stepmoms that I have that I'm coaching

that have way bigger issues than we have. Like there's been incarceration, there's been addiction, there's been them moving out of state. Different things. But we can get through this. Yes, there's ebbs and flows. It's a roller coaster. There's high highs, there's low lows. And then most of time you're just oscillating between the highs and the lows. But what I'm always coming back to with them is if you and your partner are not solid, you guys are doomed.

Everything doesn't have to be perfect for you to have a peaceful life. That person can still act like a psycho

and you can still, blinders on, mind your world and we can still be good. That is annoying and I'm sure it's embarrassing to have to deal with, insert whatever it is that you have to deal with, and very frustrating. But also, if this is your person and you want to stay with them and you want to be with them, the two of you need to be focused on the two of you and you will be okay. Because that's what I noticed when I was so wrapped up in all of the

things that were going sideways, whether it was the kids or whether it was the other house.

If I was so

concentrated on that, it didn't matter what my husband said. I would lose it. I'm the hot-headed one of the two of us. He luckily has ice water in his veins and he's just like, "I'll just dump some water on you. Like you'll be fine. You'll burn out in like 10 minutes. I'll be here. Just let me know when you're done." If we were spending time together, if we were doing things together and I was focused on our relationship and what we needed to do in our house,

we were good.

But that's the hard part because it's like, "if we didn't have to deal with this psycho or this crazy person or if she, insert whatever..." Right, I understand.

But this situation is going to be happening for however much longer. We need to learn to deal with it and we need to learn to get some coping skills or to get some coping mechanisms to work through it. Otherwise, it's going to consume your life.

Sol & Louise (10:57)
You have to accept the things you cannot change in life.

Alicia Krasko (11:00)
Right.

Sol & Louise (11:01)
Well, and the other role I'm hearing in all of this is being a partner to someone who's maybe going through a really difficult time. How do you help that relationship thrive? How do you support your partner in a conflicted situation like this?

Alicia Krasko (11:14)
This is a really good question, right? Because you have two wolves that you need to feed. You've got this one, the partner, where that's their past. Like this is the person that they chose to have kids with and here are the kids and this is the package deal.

And then there's me that has a lot of like emotional growing up to do, emotional intelligence that we need to acquire or we need to like work on getting. And yesterday would have been great, but today's a good time too. And so

both of you are experiencing the very same situation, but very, very, very, very,

very differently, right? Because I was like, "well, obviously my needs come first because I didn't bring anything into this and all

of this is your fault. if you hadn't done this, right? So then it

can turn into like, whose needs need to get met first?

Let's zoom way out

and look at what is actually the big picture here? What are we really doing? Long game is we're launching these kids at some point, I used to say 18, but maybe not 18, into the real world, right? Especially now with prices, you guys are in California, how do you live there? They're gonna get like a matchbox and hopefully they're gonna live in that with like some ants, I don't know. It's crazy. But I'm like, the long game is, is we're...

launching these kids at some point.

And at some point our relationship, it's just going to be the two of us in the house. So we need to make sure that that is good. So again, it goes back to just focusing on us. How can I support you? That's a question I got really great at asking is

how can I support you? My husband's getting it from all sides, right?

How can I support you? What does that look like? And there are times that, again, that emotional intelligence where I had to be like, okay, Alicia, you need to get your shit together. This really isn't that big of a deal. Where the other part of me is like, but why am I here? I did not sign up for this. I didn't know that this was part of the package.

Had I known then what I know now, whoa, no way. Had I known then what I now know, would have done it again with a lot more grace for everyone involved. But supporting each other and

making sure that you guys take the time to just nurture your relationship. To me, support looks like this. To him, support looks like this, where I'm gonna support you how I think support looks.

Well, that's not necessarily helpful to him, right? So I think just asking the other person, what does support look like to you?

When these situations come up, like how can I support you? Because you know it's difficult. You know that it's coming back. If you're fighting about a last minute schedule change, if you're fighting about paying for activities, if you're fighting about swapping a day for that day, these things are gonna come back up. You already know that. So the next time that this happens, let's learn from our mistakes. What a concept.

Sol & Louise (13:25)
you?

Alicia Krasko (13:26)
But also I need to go back and be like, okay, actually, yelling at him probably wasn't a good idea. That did not help because he just shut down. You can be reflective too. Like as a stepmom and be like, okay, what in this situation could I have changed?

What could I have done better? But also how could I support you?

Sol & Louise (13:41)
Yeah, it sounds like this journey that you've been on has been the exact one that you needed for your growth. I imagine for the blended family as well. And I'm curious if you have a perspective on, if you put yourself in the kids shoes, what they gained from having you as the stepmom and from also having the model of the relationship that you and your partner have had in front of them.

Alicia Krasko (14:04)
Okay, so at the beginning they were probably like, "wow, she's a lot of fun," right? When you were dating - I am so fun. And then I realized I was locked in and I was like, this is not fun. I am now a caged animal and I can't leave. So I moved states too, right? I moved into their house, like the house that my husband and his actually are, like their house. Now I'm stuck here. And I was like, my God, how do I get out? And so then it was a little crazy for me. I know that probably,

everyone was able to see that, my husband for sure. But the kids were probably like, oh yeah, this is really challenging because she's having a hard time. And we had half the week every week. So we had Thursday to Sunday. And sometimes I lived for Sunday night to Wednesday. It's not that I hated them, but it was like, I felt like I could breathe. I felt like I could just be me. I felt like it was just

us and there was the anxiety, there was the dread, there was the uncertainty of like them coming back. What mood are they going to be in? All of these things. I had to learn how to stabilize myself, not very well, and be like, okay,

what's not helpful for me is to go to pick up or is to go to drop off. What's not helpful for me is to be here when they get here.

Now I'm here waiting. It's the anticipation of what's gonna happen or

you know, what kind of mood, what kind of energy, what kind of whatever are we bringing back into this house? So I was just like, "I love you, the kids are great, I can't be here." And my husband was like, "where are you going?" And I was like, "I don't know. I'm not, okay, wait, hold on back up. I'm not leaving, okay? Let me just be clear, I'm not leaving.

I just need to, I don't know, maybe I'm gonna go for a run, maybe I'm gonna run some errands, maybe I'm gonna go to a coffee shop. I just need to be somewhere else and I need to be anxious by myself and then I can come back and just be here. I can go and greet everyone

on their own accord." And here's something that I don't think I've ever publicly talked about this, but things like that that I struggled with as a stepmom, even now as a mom sometimes I struggle with. It's like the instant chaos.

Probably the undiagnosed ADHD, Sol maybe you can relate. But it's like the instant chaos that

is just very overwhelming to me and I'm like, I can't do this. Can you guys give me a few seconds? Some quiet time by myself to just like recharge. Whoa, yes please.

Sol & Louise (16:07)
Yeah, that's real. Picking up the kids from school on exchange day, you don't exactly know. It's like you're rolling the dice. You don't know what you're going to get. And

there's always surprises and it's a pretty intense day. And I just love the honesty around

the fact that different environments have a different impact and we're carrying energy from one environment to the other. And that's why it is truly a transition because you're bringing in energy from the outside world and there's just not a sage smudge strong enough to reset the kids as they walk in

Alicia Krasko (16:36)
Yeah,

Sol & Louise (16:36)
the door.

Alicia Krasko (16:37)
right? And I think it matters too. If you're picking them up from school, that's a great example. They could have had a bad test day, maybe they had a bad practice, maybe they're fighting with their friends, right? That's one thing and it's easier to get through that. But if you're picking up from the other house, let's say, and now let's add in that it's high conflict, just because let's do worst case scenario and can work backwards from there. But if it's high conflict and there was some exchange maybe last night or the night before or a couple of days ago.

You already know that that energy is there. You know that the kids have probably been fed something. There's all of that. And now they're going or maybe something happened while they're at your house. And then now they're gonna go back to that. And I've seen it too. Like when the kids come, there's a mood. They're different than from when they're here for a stretch of time, right? And then now when it's time to leave, same thing. Like there's a different environment. There's a different vibe. There's a different...

You see the dynamic of them change. And it sucks because sometimes you're like, damn, like I wish you guys could stay here.

Sol & Louise (17:30)
Yeah.

Alicia Krasko (17:36)
And then other times you're like, damn, I'm so glad you're leaving. See you next time.

Sol & Louise (17:40)
Yeah, I've been finding recently that when they leave there's like a night where I'm like, "peace and quiet." And then the next day I'm like, "I wonder how they're doing. I

miss them. I wish they were coming back sooner."

I got my little break. And now like, I like the vibe when they've been here a while. It's we get into a groove. Yeah. And I think that my kids are in a particularly sweet spot where they're both old enough that they're somewhat independent. They don't need so much.

And so we're at this really nice stage where they're like independent, but also still really love us and it's fun to do stuff together. And so that's taken some of the edge off, I think of the transitions, but yeah, that's so real about the pickups and then also the exchange days on the way out. It's almost like they become different people.

Alicia Krasko (18:23)
Yeah, it's almost like they are adapting to go to the other place. And maybe it's survive,

maybe it's thrive, maybe it's whatever, but just like a different mindset. And I always tell stepmoms this, think about it if you have a boss that you really, really like. Or if they're in school, the kids are, if they're still young enough or they're in school, I can use that analogy too. Think about it when you had a substitute teacher.

Like you knew you were

Sol & Louise (18:47)
Mm-hmm.

Alicia Krasko (18:47)
having a substitute teacher the next day. You were like, yes, I'm so excited. Soon you're gonna watch movies and eat candy or whatever they let you do, like play board games, right? But now let's say that you're getting that substitute teacher that's really, really strict and you know it. And so you're just dreading it. So then like, you don't necessarily wanna go to school the next day. It's the same thing with the kids. Like if

they know one house is really strict, they're gonna dread going to that house until they understand the dynamic. Full disclosure:

We were the Disneyland house at first and then we very quickly became the strict house.

When stepmoms are like, "yeah we're the strict house and I don't like that..." it's a good thing.

I don't really think that being super, super passive is a good idea either. There is a middle ground where here we have house expectations at our house. Everyone is expected to adhere to them, including me, including my husband.

Everyone knows where they stand. Everyone knows their place and it operates like a well-oiled machine, almost like a business, which sounds really cold, but it's so much better than just

"we get in trouble for

things when Alicia's here and she's not here

and we're not getting in trouble."

Sol & Louise (19:47)
and it's kind of like when you have a like a dog pack that they say that the beta dogs, they want to feel their place in the hierarchy and that if they're not sure if they're the boss or if you're the boss, it makes more anxiety. And so

Alicia Krasko (19:59)
Yeah.

Sol & Louise (19:59)
the kids can test all they want, but the more confusing or mixed signals you give them, it doesn't help them to feel settled when they don't know what the limits are.

Alicia Krasko (20:09)
Yeah, and it's hard enough like in a two-parent household, like if you have a nuclear origin, first family, whatever you like to call it, and then now that is split apart, and then now let's say both parents have re-partnered. When I have four sets of ideas of how we should be running things, that's not confusing at all. What could possibly go wrong?

Sol & Louise (20:26)
So my mind is first stuck on one I'd like to thank both you, Alicia, and you, Louise, and all the wonderful stepmothers, stepdads that are listening. It's such an amazing service that you're providing to the family system. It's a stabilizing service. And also, it's a really hard job. And in my mind's eye, I'm thinking about this graph of the stepmom experience, which is,

You start dating this new person. It's super exciting. You guys are vibing so well together and you know that he's a dad or she's a mom and you start getting more involved. You start meeting the kids. Everything's great and you start coming closer as a couple and then that ex sometimes they learn of this relationship getting closer and then suddenly the graph just goes down because

there are things

Alicia Krasko (21:14)
very quickly.

Sol & Louise (21:15)
that it comes up and then these emotional issues are not necessarily being handled very well. And then suddenly the co-parenting arrangement is off the rails. You went from this kind of stable co-parenting relationship that maybe was just hiding a bunch of conflict below the surface and it's all coming out. And then you have to be like, okay, well, I'm in this relationship now. And in a way, maybe you felt like you're

partly responsible for what happened. Then you have to kind of ride it out and get to a better place. Does that feel fair of the experience?

Alicia Krasko (21:47)
Yes, it feels very accurate. I don't think that it's fair. That's not true. I don't think it's fair, but I would say that's accurate. And I see this a lot with stepmoms when they're like, yeah, they didn't have a parenting plan or they didn't have a co-parenting plan because everything went really well. Like they get along really, really well. My husband and his ex-wife get along really well. There's still a divorce decree. There's still like a parenting plan. Like here's how everything is laid out right.

The person that you had kids with when you initially got together is a very different person probably from your perspective than who you ended your relationship with, right? So if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, well, they don't seem like they would be crazy. Yeah, they don't seem like it, but you don't know what's gonna happen when you repartner with somebody else. And then something that I see a lot is, and maybe this is true in your guys' relationship, it definitely isn't ours. I feel like I get a much better version,

because my husband was like, you know what? Here are the parts that I played and for the breakdown in our marriage. Let me not repeat them or let's try not to repeat them, right? And I think that's a lot of self-reflection. So he was light years ahead of me as far as that because he had to be.

Again, he had married and had kids where I'm like, over here just living my life single and free. You don't know what's going to happen with that other person when you repartner or maybe for you, like you don't know how you're going to feel

when your ex repartners. Maybe that's sort of triggering for you. And then now you guys can't even have a semi cordial, not even like a normal conversation, but like a semi cordial conversation.

And now, because we don't have a parenting plan or a custody order, like now we have to figure out what we're gonna do for the kids when everyone's tempers are flared. That's not working. That's not gonna happen. So I'm always like,

you don't know what's going to happen on

either side of the coin. Have something in place. When or if things go bad, you have a

baseline of like at the bare minimum, this is what everyone's expected to do or this is what everyone's required to do because, and I see it a lot with stepmom specifically, is there is some sort of jealousy or there is some sort of resentment that the stepmom is getting a better version

of that partner and the mom is not happy about it. And so now the kids are weaponized.

"Now you want to be a dad or now you want to step up and parent. because she's here?" Like all of the things, right? And so yeah,

to your point of like, everything's going really great and you haven't met the kids yet maybe. And then like you bring the kids into the fold and then like the kids go back to their house and like, "she's great!" Really?

Then potentially it could be misconstrued as like the kids are having to choose favorites.

The mom is always going to be the mom. But again, there could be jealousy, there could be insecurity, there could be all of the things that a stepmom is experiencing that the mom is now experiencing. And

now the kids are pawn in the middle of the game and it's, we're playing chess with kids and that's not fair.

Sol & Louise (24:29)
Yeah, it's hard not to in this situation feel validation from the kid's affection towards you. Like,

Alicia Krasko (24:36)
Yeah,

Sol & Louise (24:37)
they love me. That means I'm so great. It's like, no, they're going to love any kind authority figure in their environment.

Shouldn't take it so personally or take all the credit.

Sol (24:47)
As a co-parent myself, I know how difficult communication can be. That's why I created Best Interest, the co-parenting app that uses advanced AI technology to automatically filter out all negativity, promoting positive communication and helping you create a healthier environment for your family. Try it now and get 10 off with code Beyond10. Link in the show notes.

Sol AI (25:09)
And

now, back to the show.

Sol & Louise (25:11)
Can we zoom out a second and talk about grandparent dynamics with blended families? Yeah.

Alicia Krasko (25:14)
Yeah let's, this is fun!

Yeah.

Sol & Louise (25:16)
Great.

Yeah, I'm curious about, you know, in your experience, the influence that grandparents have had to either make things better or worse, especially, as the family got blended and how the grandparents reacted if they were involved in your situation, what that looked like.

Alicia Krasko (25:34)
Let's see how nicely I can put this without throwing anyone completely under the bus. I have lots to tell you, but let's be nice. My husband travels quite a bit for work. Hence the reason why the ex was like, "hey, can we just talk to you because you're the one that's home all the time." So in our situation, my in-laws had been parentified. So untangling that, especially with my mother-in-law, was a walk in the park. It went over like a lead balloon.

Our guest bedroom basically like was her room and so it didn't go well when I was like, here are all of your belongings. You no longer live here. It did not go well. I've

never publicly talked about this, but we were on vacation once and same thing happened. This is ridiculous, but kids, right? All of the things that happen with kids that you don't know are gonna happen shouldn't be an issue that are an issue.

So we were vacationing and the restaurant that we were going to had a dress code. For males, you had to wear shorts and a collared shirt. Fair enough. And he's not wearing that.

He was 12 or 13 at the time. He's wearing basketball shorts and a t-shirt. No, we're not doing that. So we're all

on vacation. The four of us, this is way before my daughter was in the picture.

Ultimately, he ends up wearing the khaki shorts and the black collared shirt. Like I can still see him and he is like so mad. His face is like, I hate this. You guys are terrible, right? Like I hate it here. When my husband was like, we made you bring these things because you have to wear this. So we all drive separate to the restaurant because there six of us and we get there and my mother-in-law made the grave mistake of saying, Grandma's here. You're not in trouble.

And it was like.

I will talk to you later. Well, it's not really what I was thinking. I thought a lot darker thoughts than that, but I won't go there. And so it came up in conversation and I was like, let me just make one thing very clear to you. If your son is correcting his son, that correction stands. He is the parent. Well, you can imagine how our vacation went after that.

There was absolutely no communication at all. It did not go well. And so my husband obviously was pissed. And he's like, "why would you do that? We're on vacation." And I was like, "listen, everyone needs to know their place," right?

The alpha and beta dogs, right? Like everyone needs to understand what's happening. We are not competing for parenting. if you, the actual parent, I had nothing to do with it. You were the one that was like, you're wearing these clothes, fine. But if you are parenting and you say that your kid is in trouble,

and your parent is going to come in and be like, "you're not in trouble." Absolutely freaking not. Let me just set the stage for you right now. Again, that made me a terrible stepmom. Now

when I do that as a mom, I'm an amazing mom. Weird. So she didn't talk to me for the rest of the vacation. And I was like, if I knew that's all I had to do to get you to not talk to me, I would

have done this a long time ago. Listen. So anyway, so fast forward, a lot of, so there was a lot of enmeshment in our family with them and us.

To me it was suffocating. I didn't like it. It was too much. I was hearing too much about the other house in not ways that you would expect, just comparing bodies. And I'm like, what are we doing here? And comparing like, oh, well this happened or that happened. And I don't

care. I am not your therapist to talk about the other house with. Our relationship is good.

But then also it was working in reverse, right? And so I'm like, it was just a really messy situation. Long story short, I went into contact with

them for two years, three years, and then like we're pregnant with our daughter and I think that she was just gonna come waltzing back in and I was like, I'm just gonna be very clear to you on how this is gonna go down.

I am the mom. If you ever

want to see her or you think that you're going to see her, my daughter, let me just lay some ground rules here for you. And we've talked about it subsequently,

like everything is totally fine now. Like had you told me 10 years ago, we would be where we are now, I would have been like, yeah, right. But

everything is good and it's fine.

It's really

tricky to parent or try to, like, especially as a stepmom to like try to figure out your role when you've got the mom constantly in the picture, obviously, right? But then if you've got in-laws that are constantly in the picture and there's competing dynamics and like, "oh, you're not in trouble, grandma's here." Like, no.

Sol & Louise (29:24)
Well, it sounds

like you were in charge of setting the boundaries and obviously boundary pushers don't like boundaries. And so that's how it goes. But I'm wondering what you might tell a stepmom, let's say there's a stepmom in your community who is really scared to speak up and doesn't have that kind of innate strength that you have to be like, "nope, this is how it's going to go." What would you say to them?

Alicia Krasko (29:46)
I just want to make that clear. That didn't happen overnight. That was my breaking point. I'm sure you

Sol & Louise (29:50)
Sure. Okay.

Alicia Krasko (29:52)
understand. But I was just like, enough. You can only handle so much. Everyone has a limit. And then you're like, the limit is here. We've just crossed it. I'm going to flip out. And a lot of times, though, that's what I see in stepmoms. It takes them to get to that point where they break to finally say something or do something, unfortunately.

That's usually what I see happen is they're like, I have to get a divorce or that was me. I literally said that to my husband, "we either need to get a divorce or we need to strongly reconsider how we're handling some things because I didn't sign up for this at all." Again, it goes back to like you and your partner have to be good. Like how are we running things? How do we want things to be ran?

If we are,

the head of the household. Like you can have one CEO and then like one VP or whatever. Like my husband can be the head, but guess who the neck is? Me. And guess what? My neck controls where my head goes. I will be the neck all day long. Thank you. He wears the pants. I definitely bought them. I picked them out and I bought them.

Everyone knows their role here. I think it goes back to just starting with your partner. How do we want to run our house? And that's why house expectations are so important. What kind of behavior do we want

us to exhibit? What kind of behavior do we want the kids to exhibit? Okay. And if you've

got grandparents that are overbearing or that are trying to be in there and like nitpicking everything you do, it is imperative for your partner to be like, yeah, we're not doing that to her.

And it's hard and it's weird and it's awkward because that's what they've always done. Right? Like my husband has said to me, well, we've always done it this way. And I said, we have not always done it this way. You guys have always done that this way. Guess what?

We have a new person in the picture. Not that we need to make all of the accommodations that I'm asking for, but we need to make some accommodations or we need to rework some of these boundaries and how they're set. We're not doing this anymore. It doesn't feel good to me. And what is going to end up happening is you're going to end up in the

same situation. We're just not gonna be together. There's only so many times that you can scream for help before you're just like,

I'm not doing this. So if you are a stepmom and you're listening and you're like, I would really like to set some boundaries with the in-laws,

I would start with your partner first and not like, hey, your parents suck and here's why, or your mom is a crazy insert, whatever word that you call her and here's why. Like, no, I always say, do a compliment, a critique, a compliment.

"I love when your parents come out, they help us so much..." or whatever compliment you want to start off with.

And then, "one thing that I've seen to notice is they overstep or they try to parent or if you tell the kids no, they're like, 'it's okay,

go ahead' or whatever. I love having them around though. Am I crazy?" That's like my favorite question. was like, "am I crazy?

Do you see this too?

Does it sound crazy to you?" You have to be honest with your partner about like what you do or you don't want. And then, I did give my husband an ultimatum. I was like, "here's the deal. You don't want to rock the boat, and I understand that. You

either rock the boat or I capsize it. What are we doing here? Like, what's happening?" And he was like, "okay, hold on. Let me call them and talk to

them." And I was like, "I'm happy to do this,

but I'm at the point

where it's not gonna be pretty. It's probably gonna be pretty bloody." We

can rock the boat or we can capsize it. And I did not bring life vests. So I don't know what we're gonna do. At some point, again, you just get to a breaking point that you're like, I don't care. I will do whatever at this point to get my point across because I've tried being nice. I've tried giving hints. I've

tried smiling and nodding and giving you the evil face.

I'm trying to be nice to you, but also I hate what you're doing. But again, that comes with time. I wasn't like that early on in my stepmom role. was like, I'm new here. I'm just trying to figure it out. You guys do things really weird. I don't really like this, but let's see what happens, right?

Sol & Louise (33:16)
Yeah, oftentimes in a divorce situation, it can really wreak havoc on families, on family systems. It can really

Alicia Krasko (33:22)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sol & Louise (33:23)
break apart some of the systems that used to work. And I'm wondering what you've seen in your community, especially in high-conflict situations, about alienation or grandparents having to choose sides.

What have you seen?

Alicia Krasko (33:39)
Yeah, grandparents having to choose sides, yeah. In our situation, she chose sides and it wasn't our side. My husband was like, "it's fine." Where I'm like, "are you crazy? You're not even mad about that?? And then I got to the point where I was like, you know what? There were other things that were at play and we had alienation everyone says because of the mom.

But no one ever tells you about when alienation happens because of the mother-in-law. It feels like an inside job because it is an inside job. But if they choose sides, I think the hardest part is when they choose sides and it's not their own kid. And that feels hard. That feels really tough. Finally, my husband said to me, "I don't need you to be upset on my behalf. I don't need you to be pissed for me. I don't need you to fight battles that I don't want to fight." And I was like,

"I'll try not to, but I don't like this." But it is really hard because at the end of the day, all you can control is you, your house and what happens in there. You have to focus on your partner, your guys' relationship and how you want things to go in your house and let the kids be little.

When I went no contact, it wasn't like I went to my sub kids and was like, "here's what's happening and here's why," I just didn't go.

Sol & Louise (34:40)
Did they ever ask?

Alicia Krasko (34:41)
No, no one ever asked. I think that they could see the writing on the wall though. I said to my husband, I think he thought I was joking, "I'm not going to Christmas at your family's house."

I didn't buy gifts. I did nothing.

And he was like, "what am going to tell them?" The day comes and he's like, aren't you guys

going to get ready? And I was like, "me and my daughter, we aren't going.

Tell them whatever you want. You know what? Tell them I need to keep the baby on the schedule. That'll be easy.

You can tell them I hate them. You can tell them that I don't want to see them. You can tell them that they're not going to get my first Christmas." But then also on the flip side, so when I tell someone, I'm like, "yeah, you can do that. But what you can't do is then stay home and be a nervous wreck." Like, oh my god, what if they're going to be mad? Obviously, that plays into it too, because I was like,

oh, did I make the right decision? And I was Be mad. You don't get to be a psycho to me anymore. Now I'm limiting my access to you, access to me and my kid. That's how this is going to play out.

We're gonna change this dynamic. So yeah, it's really hard if you've got in-laws and they feel like they have to choose sides or you want them to choose a side and they're not choosing a side.

Sol & Louise (35:42)
From my observation oftentimes what happens is especially if if you've left the divorce and you're learning more about yourself you might be learning how to set boundaries and you

Alicia Krasko (35:51)
Mm-hmm.

Sol & Louise (35:51)
might be starting to set those boundaries like in your own experience with your parents, the in-laws

Alicia Krasko (35:56)
Mm-hmm.

Sol & Louise (35:57)
and those boundaries are

are almost like danger signals to them, right?

Alicia Krasko (36:01)
Mm-hmm.

Sol & Louise (36:02)
Whereas the other side might not be setting the same boundaries or even setting any boundaries at all. And so then your connection

Alicia Krasko (36:04)
Totally, that's literally ours,

Sol & Louise (36:07)
with them becomes a little bit more fragile. And so they might gravitate towards the other side where they feel safer because there's no boundaries.

Alicia Krasko (36:15)
And it's easier.

Sol & Louise (36:16)
It's It's a path of least resistance. Yeah. Yeah.

Alicia Krasko (36:18)
Yeah, I like water.

Sol & Louise (36:20)
Yeah. Can we do the lightning round? Let's do it. Okay. Yeah.

Alicia Krasko (36:23)
what's

the lightning round? Yeah, let's...

Sol & Louise (36:25)
we're

going to do the lightning round, is a series of brief questions, which you can give a one word answer. You can elaborate. We might have a follow up question or discuss some of them. So ready? Okay.

Alicia Krasko (36:35)
Okay. Yeah.

Sol & Louise (36:36)
All right. The first question is the thing stepmoms most often get wrong in the first year is...

Alicia Krasko (36:41)
I want to say correction over connection. Like they come in and they're like, this sucks. I'm going to change this, this, this, and this. With the kids are like, that's not right. Let's change this. And I'm like, again, relatable, but we need to work on building a relationship with the kids first. But it's really hard when you see it's literally in your face of like all the things that you don't like that are being done 'wrong' per se, which is just really like, they're just done a different way.

Sol & Louise (37:03)
Makes sense because you're entering as the new person in the existing system and you're seeing

Alicia Krasko (37:08)
Mm-hmm.

Sol & Louise (37:08)
the challenges whereas the father might not because that's the way things have always been done.

Alicia Krasko (37:13)
It may not even be a challenge though. They might just not be cleaning the right way. That was situation.

Sol & Louise (37:17)
Sol

had to tell me early on, stop correcting their grammar. I was like, "but that's how they learn to speak properly." Here's the data on this.

When your step kid pushes back, the worst thing you can do is.

Alicia Krasko (37:28)
Lose your shit.

Take it personally.

Because kind of like you said earlier about like the affection, like you can't take it personally because

they would do that to anyone, right? So same thing when it's negative. If they are pushing back, they're gonna push back on anyone. You and I could switch places and they would treat you the exact same way. I came in with no kids. I had

like an early childhood background and then switched to business. I didn't realize how many times I'd have to repeat myself when it came to kids. Or how many times I would say the same thing over and over again, like, "no, we're not having a play date with whoever because we have X, Y, and Z going on." Or "I've asked you 10 times to pick this up" or whatever. Just like repeating yourself.

If you meet fire with fire, good luck.

Sol & Louise (38:11)
The relationship between a stepmom and the biomom works when

Alicia Krasko (38:14)
There's a lot of growth, there's a lot of healing.

Sol & Louise (38:16)
On both sides is the ideal. That was going to be my question.

What do you do when the other side doesn't?

Alicia Krasko (38:20)
Well, then you probably won't have a great relationship. And I think it's really hard to, let's say there's a lot of growth on the stepmom side, since this is for stepparents. I've seen it on both sides. I've had stepmoms that I've coached that are like, listen what she did, and I was like, actually that sounds really normal. You my friend, can I talk to you because you're the one that's being crazy? And she's like, no, I'm not. And I'm like, yes, like let's work through this, but yes, like I've literally had to say that. But since this is for stepparents, if the stepparent is doing all of

the growth and all of the healing and trying to do all of the things. It's not linear, right? You're have ups and downs and that's totally fine. But getting to the conclusion of this is never going to be a relationship like I thought this relationship was going

Sol & Louise (38:56)
Hmm.

Alicia Krasko (38:56)
to be is really hard. And there's grief that comes with that because it's like, I've done the work. I'm trying to put the kids first. I'm doing all of these things. How can you not do that? Especially as a mom. Listen, it takes all kinds

of people to make the world go round. You can only control you. You can't force a relationship with somebody that doesn't want to have a relationship with you. And maybe, maybe she has done all of the growth and maybe she has done all of the healing, but she didn't have kids with a stepmom.

It is not her job to have a relationship with them either. And I think that's a weird dynamic that maybe we're not ready for yet either, like conversation wise, because stepmoms are like, yeah, we have to be friends. No, you don't.

You're not required to be friends. You're not required to have a friendly relationship. If you guys do, amazing. If you don't, you could still have a healthy co-parenting dynamic without

the mom and stepmom being the best of friends. The goal is not matching jerseys on the sidelines. Where do we get this ideology from? I have no idea. I mean, obviously people post pictures, but that's not the goal.

Sol & Louise (39:54)
When you see those Instagram co-parents that are saying, "oh wow, look at how amazing our relationship is."

I feel like it's the same as a billionaire driving around their fancy cars. It's like, okay, that's nice that you guys have that. But the reality is co-parenting is hard for most people and we can't all be a billionaire driving around our fancy cars.

Alicia Krasko (40:16)
Yeah, and I think that induces a lot of shame. Not to say that if that's your situation, you guys should post pictures or you shouldn't post pictures or you shouldn't do that thing. If you want to, that's fine, but then for the stepmom that's struggling, they're like, well, look at, I wish I had the relationship that they had, or I wish that, like, why can't we have that? Because there's

so many factors. Their dynamic could be whatever it is, and then over here in your dynamic, you have completely different players in your game.

So we're not comparing apples to apples at all in any step family. Every single step family is so different. You can't look at somebody else's and be like, I wish I had that. I mean, you can, but you're not going

to get anywhere because every dynamic is so different in the families.

Sol & Louise (40:55)
Stepmoms burnout

Alicia Krasko (40:56)
when they try to control everything. I'm so good at running my life, like let me run yours. That doesn't work in a blended family.

I wish somebody would have told me that before I signed up because it

Sol & Louise (41:04)
you

Alicia Krasko (41:05)
did not work at all.

Sol & Louise (41:05)
You're like, but I'm the most capable. Why not?

Alicia Krasko (41:07)
I know, and my ideas are so

much better because I can see the dynamics and I can see the dysfunction. Why doesn't anyone believe me?

Sol & Louise (41:14)
Connection with a stepchild starts with...

Alicia Krasko (41:16)
seeing them as a human and seeing them as a person and getting to know them, their likes, wants, needs, desires, their interests. The analogy I was using like a coaching session with a stepmom is, this is super simplified, right? But if I make a joke at your expense, I have a history with both of you, I've talked to both of you before. If I make a joke at your expense, you're probably gonna laugh

Sol & Louise (41:34)
It's back to me.

Alicia Krasko (41:35)
and think that it's funny or whatever. It's not gonna be anything terrible.

But if you don't know me, or if you don't like me, and I make a joke at your expense, that's not gonna go over well. Same thing here.

You can't come in and start barking orders at a kid that doesn't know you, but if you already have a relationship with them, if you already have a rapport with them, if

you already have some sort of dynamic with them, that's not negative. If they just know you, like, she just tells

me what to do all the time.

Well, that sucks. Like, that's not fun.

Kids are human too

and they have bad days, they have good days. We're just like "kids are resilient, we'll just tell them what to do and they just do it." Not realizing that they may not be as resilient as we think or things might impact them more than we think and so just taking that time to make that connection, get to know them, get to know them as a person before

anything else. That's how your relationship builds. And it might be something that you're not interested in. My stepson plays video games. I am not a gamer.

But I used to

go and watch him play video games. I can hear his in real life friends on the headset, but like, hey, what are they up to? Or what game are you guys playing? How does this work? And I would sit there and watch him.

And that's not my favorite thing. I don't love that. But I got to see him in his environment. What's it like? What do you do?

Am I gonna play with him? I mean, I have, but that's not my jam.

Sol & Louise (42:49)
I think they just like to feel seen.

Alicia Krasko (42:51)
Yeah.

Sol & Louise (42:51)
That's a good segue to

our closing, Alicia. So for a stepmom or stepdad who's listening right now and they're maybe just really in the thick of it, they're struggling, what's something that they can do today to feel a little bit better, feel a little bit more in control and guiding the ship?

Alicia Krasko (43:08)
I think a really good question to ask is like, whatever that they're struggling with, is this going to matter in five days? Is it going to matter in five weeks? Is it going to matter in five years? That really, like that's something that I learned and it really put a lot of things into perspective. Remember I told you I'd like blow my top for no reason. Not for no reason, like looking back it was for no reason, but I was in the thick of it. So I like, everything was chaos. Everything catastrophic all of the time.

That puts things into perspective. Like it helps you zoom out. But also sometimes it's really hard when you're like, is gonna matter in five days. And you're like, no, it's not gonna matter in five days. Like let me get ahold of myself.

Sol & Louise (43:40)
So true. So true. So for those that are listening to this podcast and would like to connect with you, learn more about your work, how can they reach you?

Alicia Krasko (43:48)
I am @AliciaKrasko on all social media platforms.

and then my website is AliciaKrasko.com

Sol & Louise (43:53)
Great, and do you want to tell us a little bit about the community?

Alicia Krasko (43:56)
Sure, I can. I have a stepmom community and we have office hours every Wednesday. Once a month we have group coaching. Once a month we also have like a live Q &A, but there's a private chat where everyone can get to talk to each other and, "hey, this is happening in my family. is this normal? Like what's happening in your family?"

Sol & Louise (44:11)
Yeah, wonderful. Great. Thank you so much, Alicia. Thanks for being on today.

Alicia Krasko (44:15)
Thanks for having me.

You're welcome.

Sol (44:18)
Thanks for joining us on the Coparenting Beyond Conflict podcast. To support our show, please subscribe or leave a rating. Links for all books and resources mentioned on today's podcast appear in our show notes or on CoparentingBeyondConflict.com. See you next time.

Sol (44:36)
The

commentary and opinions available on this podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only, and not for the purpose of providing legal or psychological advice. You should contact a licensed attorney, coach, or therapist in your state to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem.